Author Topic: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?  (Read 24936 times)

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Offline sober_ruski

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2008, 02:38:25 »
where did you get the prelude part? :o

i was looking for one at some point, never found one i liked in good enough condition.

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2008, 02:40:29 »
where did you get the prelude part? :o

i was looking for one at some point, never found one i liked in good enough condition.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,51035.msg459875.html#msg459875
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,51035.msg459941.html#msg459941

Remember, first level information collecting can include inaccuracies.  These get refined in further investigation of high value targets.

Offline sober_ruski

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2008, 02:47:56 »
argh, i give up. i'm screwed if i do and if i don't.

There is a reason why I did not use my icq number here. Did a quick search and found things i did a while ago and completely forgot about them :D

Still, where do I find a 2004 Camaro?

Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2008, 13:39:26 »
This is another reason to be very careful of what you post.  There are many "experts" out there who want nothing better than to gather their information from you.  This guy apparently knows nothing about Security Concerns and is posing as an expert to pick up tidbits so he can spew them to the media and look good.  He should in fact be expousing the same things as the CF and reinforcing their statement, but he is doing quite the opposite.  What agenda does he have to call this all folly on the part of the CF?

I believe we have discussed the "expert" status of Mr Ram before, and he even came on this site to defend himself to boot.

Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2008, 13:49:14 »
If you really want to find out how out to lunch he is, try this little exercise:

Go to Killing with Keyboards and follow the steps as laid out there and see how much you can find on yourself or someone else.  It may take some time and imagination, but you will be surprised at what you may find.  Of course you will find many people with the same name, but with a little patience, you will be able to sort them out by address, nationality, employment, contacts and friends on Facebook, phone numbers, blog sites, etc. 

Give it a try.

I have googled myself on few occasions, anyone wanting to find info will have a fun time sorting through all the pages, cause my last name means something dirty in another language  >:D

Offline Tommy

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2008, 13:52:50 »
One more reason to own high powered weapons.....

not that I own any of those......   :-\ 
Tommy is retired now so he can say any opinion he darned well pleases so long as it stays within the forum guidelines :D

Offline hauger

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2008, 14:10:22 »
Alright....so in the vein of on-line privacy....how's bout a tool for a person who wants to wipe clean all past posts....sort of a "click here and become anon again" button.  I'm guessing such a function might prove tricky to make a reality though...but if the database can search for past posts, it should be able to mass delete them too.  Granted...this would probably make a number of historic threads completely unreadable.

What about de-linking posts at a users request from the profile (after a certain time frame).  This preserves the thread integrity but lessens the ability to mine the forums for information.

Or....do us a favour and delete the "search for posts from this user" function.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2008, 14:14:45 by hauger »

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2008, 14:15:06 »
Alright....so in the vein of on-line privacy....how's bout a tool for a person who wants to wipe clean all past posts....sort of a "click here and become anon again" button.  I'm guessing suck a function might prove tricky to make a reality though...but if the database can search for past posts, it should be able to mass delete them too.  Granted...this would probably make a number of historic threads completely unreadable.

What about de-linking posts at a users request from the profile (after a certain time frame).  This preserves the thread integrity but lessens the ability to mine the forums for information.

Or....do us a favour and delete the "search for posts from this user" function.

You obviously didn't understand what the term "Cached" meant, nor the fact that those posts are cached on the www in a variety of locations used by Google.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
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Offline hauger

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2008, 14:17:16 »
You obviously didn't understand what the term "Cached" meant, nor the fact that those posts are cached on the www in a variety of locations used by Google.

Very fair comment.  Damn Google & low, low price storage that allows near unlimited cashe.

T'was just thinking aloud about how to make things a bit more difficult is all.

Offline hauger

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2008, 14:22:54 »
Hey wait a minute, isn't google cashe an opt out system?


From Google's web site:[/i]The "Cached" link will be missing for sites that have not been indexed, as well as for sites whose owners have requested we not cache their content.

 (source: http://www.google.com/help/features.html)


Ummm....just thinking out loud here....couldn't army.ca just, oh, I don't know, maybe ask google to cut out the caching?

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2008, 14:39:59 »
Have you heard about the "Wayback Machine"?
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
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Offline Haggis

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2008, 14:47:45 »
That's it!!

I'm not posting on the Internet any more.

.... oops! :-[
Train like your life depends on it.  Some day, it may.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2008, 14:58:31 »
In 2003, Mike had six updates to his Army.ca homepage for this site.

This is his homepage on Dec 04, 2004.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2008, 15:10:48 »
The NDP webpage from 28 Jan 2004.  Not much on it.  A link will take you to a Jack Layton news article.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
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Offline uncle-midget-Oddball

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2008, 15:12:46 »
In 2003, Mike had six updates to his Army.ca homepage for this site.

This is his homepage on Dec 04, 2004.

Wow, June 2004 :

Total Members: 2795
Total Posts: 75194
Total Topics: 16856
Total Categories: 5
Total Boards: 26

Quite the boom, I'd say.

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2008, 15:17:13 »
Here are the 8 Commitments that the NDP pledged in June 2004
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Offline NL_engineer

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2008, 15:27:41 »
One more reason to own high powered weapons.....

not that I own any of those......   :-\ 

I think I am going to have to do some shopping, maybe I'll get a few of these
Note to any Taliban and AQ personnel on the Form:  ALL SUICIDE VESTS AND EXPLOSIVE DEVICES MUST BE TESTED TO INSURE THEY WORK BEFORE GOING AFTER A TARGET.

This is a measure to save any embarrassment that may occur when your explosive device, does not function as it is intended to.

It has come to my attention that these measures are not being followed, so for all Taliban; please refer to the above.

Thank you for your cooperation

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2008, 15:42:02 »
It is amazing what you can find.  I wonder if Rxx was satisfied with the advice on text effects in Flash MX?  One can follow him through sites for pilots, find out his age and many other things such as check his address and all that stuff that is in the demo.  It just takes time and patience.  As the WARNING says, you don't even have to post on the internet to have your info there through some other means/person/corporation/database.  The phone company has posted your info.  The Cable companies.  Company nominal rolls are available in some cases.  Homepages contain the names personnel in Corporate hierarchies.  Schools post their alumni.  Newspapers print names and places.  Clubs, Volunteer Groups, and other Organizations publish fact sheets.  Blog sites, Posts on the Globe and Mail, National Post, Enmasse, etc. all bring up little factoids.  So a 30 year old pilot posting on various sites, is far from anonymous.

Posting style will also give a person away.  Take for instance a foul mouth character, who claims to be a US Army Reserve Airborne 1LT who crusades for the M113 to be named the Gavin.  Everyone immediately recognizes Sparky as soon as he goes on a rant on any site he has been on.  
« Last Edit: February 27, 2008, 16:00:40 by George Wallace »
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline garb811

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2008, 16:34:47 »
George is making excellent points here and it's not only the bad guys you need to worry about but also your CofC/employer, your future employer(s), your friends, your family, your neighbour in the PMQs who has a grudge against you, the repo man, your future wife...the list goes on and on.   

The key for 99% of us is managing the exposure of the information you control to what you feel comfortable with.  As George has clearly illustrated, it is also important to realize that once it is on the Net, there is nothing you can do to completely erase all traces of it.  It's like that tattoo you thought looked so cool when you were a 16 year old rebel without a clue which is no longer so cool on a 35 year old professional...you have to live with your past decisions.

We as individuals not only need to exercise discipline but we also need to instill that into our friends and family as well.  It doesn't do you any good to be exercising good Internet Discipline only to have your Aunt Nellie posting emails and photos you send to her on her favorite "Support the Troops" site or your buddy Tim tagging you in a Facebook photo from a night on the town during your last TD.

And, you should really, really be considering moving to an encryption system for your email.  Like anything else on the web it is liable to interception without too much difficulty and it also leaves electronic tracks on any server it passes through.  There are very good, high quality products out there that you can use (some of which are free) to help safeguard your privacy.  Check out Hushmail, Pretty Good Privacy or gnuPG/GPG4win.  Hushmail has the added benefit that most other Webmail accounts lack of not sending your IP address in the header of the email.

For what it's worth though, the Net hasn't invented this problem, it has only made it much easier for people who want the info to get their hands on it.  For instance, in Canada you could always purchase directories which cross-referenced phone numbers to street addresses to names and easily learn who their neighbours were and the neighbours contact information.  If you had a library of those books you could easily reconstruct where a person had lived over a span of 10-20-30 years and you could find a neighbour from 20-30 years ago to talk to as well.  You could always go down to the courthouse and request the records of any trial which had taken place and you could go to City Hall and get the registered owner of any address...  The difference is, then it took some money and some work.  Now all you need to do it is have 10 minutes to spare and a basic understanding of how search engines work.

As for Facebook or anyother social networking site, go ahead and use it.  Just carefully manage what you put up there and don't be naive enough to believe that anything you put up there is private or won't be exploited (only by the site to make money if you're lucky), even if you have all of the privacy settings enabled.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2008, 16:41:09 by garb811 »

Offline garb811

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2008, 16:37:40 »
Posting style will also give a person away.  Take for instance a foul mouth character, who claims to be a US Army Reserve Airborne 1LT who crusades for the M113 to be named the Gavin.  Everyone immediately recognizes Sparky as soon as he goes on a rant on any site he has been on.  

Heh...just like they used to tell you in Voice Procedure classes...stick to the approved greyman script and don't add your own personal "flair" lest you make it easy for the other side to track you.

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2008, 17:34:56 »
As for Facebook or anyother social networking site, go ahead and use it.  Just carefully manage what you put up there and don't be naive enough to believe that anything you put up there is private or won't be exploited (only by the site to make money if you're lucky), even if you have all of the privacy settings enabled.

Great post garb, I would add one thing to this para:

Remain aware of what your friends are posting.  It won't matter how careful you are with your own online security if your friends have no concerns for their own or yours at all.

Offline hauger

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2008, 21:26:04 »
Have you heard about the "Wayback Machine"?

Wayback is a neat site, I've played with it in the past.  Anyways....it'll helpfully delete past caches, as well as allow you to (through the use of robot.txt) to keep from being archived in the future.

It's all a moot point.  With storage and processing power costing what it does, any sufficiently motivated government could built and run a purpose-built web-crawling and archiving system.  Being careful and being aware of how much what you post gives away information is of course the most important vector towards protecting yourself.  This doesn't mean though a site like this will all its information baggage it carries couldn't maybe help out a bit with the privacy thing.  The steps would be easy (please take this as a constructive suggestion and not as a corrosive demand):

1. Write google, say, hey buddies, how's bout you cut out the caching?

2. Give Wayback a ring, see if they'd remove the archives they have.  If that's unpalatable, get them to only archive the front page. (actually, when I search wayback for army.ca, although it comes up, clicking on it makes it a bit grumpy...seems milnet doesn't like hot linking)

3. Allow users to either search and delete their posts, or allow them the option to remove "Show the last posts of this person." from their profiles (make their profile names unsearchable). 

But hell, if y'all don't want to do any of that, well, whatever then....I'm just going to keep myself and not spout off any real identifying info.  Oh....forgot to mention...I did think the original thread was excellent.

Offline garb811

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2008, 05:26:21 »
...any sufficiently motivated government, company, entity or individual could built can and has built and run a purpose-built web-crawling and archiving system.

There, fixed that for ya.   ;D

The thing is, this is no longer confined to the realm of governments.  With dirt cheap storage (a 1 Terabyte drive is $299 on tigerdirect.ca today), cheap bandwidth and free web crawling and data mining software, anyone can get into the business of data mining and archiving relatively cheaply.  If all you are concerned about is text, it doesn’t take up that much space.  A Terabyte of storage will hold about 1,000 copies of the Encyclopaedia Britannica and The National Archives of the UK, which covers 900 years of data, is only about 60TB in size so you really don't need a wallet the size of a G-8 Governement to get into the game anymore unless you want to start tackling encrypted traffic.

The problems with your suggestions for the site are although they look sensible and a good increase in privacy and security, they really don’t gain much.  As long as Mike keeps all items archived and searchable on the site, asking Google and Wayback to stop archiving the pages is pointless.  If they weren’t archived there, I suppose Mike could simply take the site down if the privacy and security concerns became that overwhelming but the bigger and more worrisome problem at that point is they would already be archived in the places we don’t know about which is where the damage can is really being done.  The only way to stop that is to password protect the entire site and only allow access to trusted and authenticated users and send all data via SSL but that would totally defeat the purpose of army.ca.  Even that wouldn't be enough though as I'd happily sell out Mike for $100 and use that money to finally pay for a subscription.   >:D

Disabling the “Show last posts of this person” doesn’t make it impossible to search for a user’s posts; you can do it via the general search tool as well.  We used to be able to edit and delete our posts at will but unfortunately what ended up happening was people would get upset and go back and edit or delete their comments not for privacy or security reasons but simply due to having a hissy fit after being “beaten” in a debate.  This had the effect of making entire threads nonsensical and unreadable.  Additionally, all it takes is for one person to quote your post and you have lost all ability to edit it….this is why some people here have developed the habit of quoting people they are debating; it is impossible for the other poster to alter their previous statements to make a rebuttal moot without it being obvious.  If you're that worried about something you've put up from a *SEC perspective and the grace period has passed, contacting a friendly mod is sure to solve the problem...at least on army.ca.

I make it a point to try to re-read my posts immediately after posting and then again before the time limit for editing expires.  The “sober second thought” not only lets me reduce the possibility of putting something out there which I don’t want but also lets me catch typos, grammar errors etc I missed the first time around.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2008, 05:30:10 by garb811 »

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2008, 23:50:40 »
If you want to know what can be done with data aggregators and your personal data, check this site:

http://www.zoominfo.com/

Offline Yrys

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Re: Do you really feel safe after you post on the Internet?
« Reply #49 on: February 29, 2008, 00:28:30 »
Louvre website

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