Air Force Temperate Combat Boot - Initial Issue

[Eye In The Sky]

For those that are interested  :blotto:, the Air Force TCB is now being issued, atleast here in Shearwater.  As with the CWWBs, initial issue is 1 pair, with a 2nd to follow.  We weren't told about them, I just happened to be over at Supply and saw someone trying on a pair.  The noticeable difference with the TCB is the inside lining is black in the TCBs vice the grey in the CWWBs.

I haven't put them on my feet yet, but am going to give them a whirl tomorrow in lieu of my Magnum Stealth IIs.  More to follow.

*editted to include the pic.  TCBs on the left, CWWBs on the right.

 

[Adamant]

I picked mine up the other day.

I kinda like my old combat boots better.  I find with the lining they are almost as warm as the Cold/Wet Weather boot. 

But as per, I'll wear them and continue to do so until the next new boot comes out.

 

[navymich]

I'm so confused with boot names anymore, but from the link you gave Eye, they look like the ones I have.  But I've had mine (both pair) for almost a year now.  I don't have them handy to look at them to compare.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I'm so confused with boot names anymore, but from the link you gave Eye, they look like the ones I have.  But I've had mine (both pair) for almost a year now.  I don't have them handy to look at them to compare.

Well oddly enough...the pictures on the CEMS site for the TCB, CWWB and ECWB...all look the EXACT same!   :blotto:.  On a side note, what do you think of the TCBs?  Junk or no?  I am wondering if you actually wore them on your work-up training and the BFT, or did you get issued the army stuff?

I am glad they changed the color of the lining to be honest...I'd have them all mixed the f**K up and be cursing when I had a really HOT foot in the summer and a really COLD one in the winter at some point.

 

[Spring_bok]

This sounds alot like the new General purpose boot.  Interesting thing about those is that they don't all come with a vibram sole.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

This sounds alot like the new General purpose boot.  Interesting thing about those is that they don't all come with a vibram sole.

Neither the CWWB or the TCB have Vibram soles...and they have an explaination here, Para's 9 and 10. 

 

[navymich]

I had no problems with them day-to-day stuff.  Sometimes used the green/black sock system, other times just a white sport sock and grey woolies.  Comfortable.  Then I hit workup training.  Still doing ok with regular stuff, until I put weight on my back.

We did three 5-6km ruck marches in 4 days while finishing up at Wainwright.  Hot spots on the soles the first day, and then just a few blisters at the base of the toes the 2nd.  By the 3rd march, I was hobbling.  Lots of suggestions from everyone on what to do differently between taping up feet and using different socks.  Only problem with that, was that my feet weren't healed yet and I didn't have anything different supply-wise with me.

A week later, we did the BFT.  This was my first ever BFT, with only those 3 marches prior as my workup to them.  Needless to say, I was hurting.  Got through it in 2:02 and could barely stand at the end.  Was doing it with 3RCR and many of them came up to me and said "you did the BFT in THOSE boots?!?!" with a look of shock on their faces.  Figured I had hot spots and a couple of new blisters on top of what was already there.  Took my boots off when I got back to my room to find the insoles pink with blood, loose skin along both soles and a very tender big toe (nail is almost fully grown back now!)

Once my feet healed, I was able to play around with different ways of working with the boots.  Went back to wearing the grey woolies but with a white "blister" sock under them.  Put a new insole in the boots and I also wrap my feet before a march.  Some of the others in my group have gotten theirs since then, and are also having troubles here and there, but mostly on the soles.

I am curious to know how yours work out Eye....I know you're good for the rucking!  

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I am curious to know how yours work out Eye....I know you're good for the rucking!  

There is no way I'll wear these other than for workin' around the Wing.  I'd not want to even think about ruckin' in these, I tried that with the Army WWBs on a BFT and following the BFT, the Medic took me to the hospital to have all the rolled-up skin cut off my feet.  I'll stick to my Magnums for that stuff 

The AF boots (TCB, CWWB) issued under the CEMS project were never designed for 'ruckmarching' and other 'green-type' work.  They as much as say it on the Understanding CEMS Boots page:


1. In an attempt to address the many misunderstandings and the resulting concerns by Air Force personnel, the following explanation of policy and technical advances included in all CEMS boots (Cold Wet Weather, Temperate, Desert and Extreme Cold) is provided.

Firstly, why is the AF boot so different from the Army boots?

2. Quite simply, our role is significantly different. Typically, the average Army personnel walk over much longer distances, carrying various weight loads, and historically have not concerned themselves with garments being Flame Resistant (FR) or Shock Resistant. Thus their emphasis has been on lighter weight construction with limited if any need to meet safety concerns such as those met by the CSA standards. CAS endorsed the decision that the four AF boots would meet CSA standards to ensure safety to personnel.


You'd have been much better off with COTS/LPO boots or the interim combat boot the army is giving out until their version of the TCB is issued.  I am actually surprised no one in green thought of that before you left, or when you got there.  (but they probably don't realize the AF boots are "safety boots" more than they are "combat boots")

 

[dimsum]

So to get those, do we turn in the Mk IIIs/Aircrew Boots/any boots? 

 

[Adamant]

So to get those, do we turn in the Mk IIIs/Aircrew Boots/any boots? 

I didn't have to, or at least no one asked for them.  It just added to my growing assortment of boots... ;D

 

[navymich]

I had to turn in my other boots, so this is now all I have.  Like I mentioned, I've figured out how to make them work for me.  This was after several visits to MIR and supply.  They couldn't give me a chit for boots and supply could only change sizes for me if 'things aren't working out'.  No concern now, as I'm in tans for the next while.  But when I get back to my home unit next year, I'll be pushing for something else.  Of course, I'll be back to a cushy chair job, so it won't be a big deal. 

 

[armyvern]

There is no way I'll wear these other than for workin' around the Wing.  I'd not want to even think about ruckin' in these, I tried that with the Army WWBs on a BFT and following the BFT, the Medic took me to the hospital to have all the rolled-up skin cut off my feet.  I'll stick to my Magnums for that stuff 

The AF boots (TCB, CWWB) issued under the CEMS project were never designed for 'ruckmarching' and other 'green-type' work.  They as much as say it on the Understanding CEMS Boots page:

Note to Mich:

You may be Air Force, but if you're deploying overseas into a position directly supporting Land Force Operations --- you are then entitled to the D01301 Land Force Operational Field Clothing and equipment scale ... that would include the boots made for rucking ...

Just saying is all ... 

 

[navymich]

Thanks Vern.  Not overly concerned about it now , but good to know to pass on to others from my unit that will be going over.  The system bought me tan boots with no questions or problems.  When I get home next year, I'm going to work on them getting me black ones too.  I might even miss rucking when I get home....naaaaa.  ;D

 

[SupersonicMax]

I got them, tried them for a week and went back to the Gore-Tex Terra Boots.  They are now sitting somewhere in my basement along with my combat boots.

 

[belka]

I've had those things since last year, winter and summer pair. They were uncomfortable for awhile, but after a few months they fit nicely.

 

[navymich]

I've had those things since last year, winter and summer pair. They were uncomfortable for awhile, but after a few months they fit nicely.

What have you done in them?  Just basic walking and sitting around, or have you done any marching or rucking in them?

Myself, and people that I work with, found that the uncomfortable spot in them was at the back of the heel.  Only took a few wearings to soften the leather up there, but that is where they seem to rub most.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I had to exchange my fist pair at Supply this morning.  The right portion of the steel/safety toe on the right boot wasn't shaped properly and every stride I took it was diggin' into my toe.  I was chicken-walking before I got to the car.

I took them back and asked to try on a new pair as they were not wearable.  The civie at the counter stuck his hand in them and said "they feel fine to me".   :  My reply was "well unfortunately my foot and your hand aren't the same shape".      

I got a new pair and they seem fine.  I have to keep in mind, these aren't combat boots, they are more geared towards safety boots, despite the name TCBs.  Not a chance, given the choice, that I will wear these on anything like BSERE or anything other than general duties around the Wing.  I'll wear Pair #2 the rest of this week.  First thoughts are they are somewhat lighter than but not as comfortable as the CWWBs.

As far as military-looking safety boots go, they do the job but Airmich, I have to say, I feel for you knowing you did your first ever work-up trng and BFT in these clunkers.     I hope other AF types deploying are aware or find out they can get the CTS issue boots; while they aren't Magnums or Matterhorns, they gotta be better for 'green work' than these Temperate Combat Safety Boots are.

However, as a general utility boot for most of the Air Force, they should do fine.  Hopefully Joe and Jane Taxpayer are getting a good bang for their buck for them. 

 

[dimsum]

  I might even miss rucking when I get home....naaaaa.   ;D

Miss them as much as duty watch on the MCDVs?  :

 

[belka]

What have you done in them?  Just basic walking and sitting around, or have you done any marching or rucking in them?

Myself, and people that I work with, found that the uncomfortable spot in them was at the back of the heel.  Only took a few wearings to soften the leather up there, but that is where they seem to rub most.

I'd definitely not use them for any kind of marching with heavy loads. For basic things like walking around on the flight line or standing in-line at Timmie's, they do the job well.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

After a week of wearing these boots:

- they fit my brand new orhotics (barely);
- the steel/safety toe seems to 'stick down' or something, maybe its the lack of padding due to the lower amounts of thinsulate or whatever they are using in the CWWBs, but it starts to bother me come the end of the day;
- the heel cup seems to be different from the CWWBs and I had friction spots from them;
- I would not want to use these for any kind of 'field boots'.  They are fine around the shop, around the helipad/runways/etc but any amount of walking and I would be looking for combat boots;
- the lace up easily and are comfortable for GP use; and
- I can feel a difference in the harder sole/heel on the TCBs from the CWWBs. 

* My 'toe' issue is likely from the orthotics I have.  When I wear them with the issued insole, I don't have the same thing happening.  I tried my new orthotics in the CWWBs and didn't notice the toe at all. 

All in all, for the non-flying types, they seem fine.  Most of the people I have chatted with that have them here on the Wing are happy to have them, they are noticeably cooler than the CWWBs are.  After wearing my Magnum Stealth IIs all summer they are pretty clunky to get used to at first.

They still don't come close to being a pair of Matterhorn 10" field boots though.  But the price is right.  I should have my 2nd pair issued...hmm probably around the first snowfall.  :blotto: