Airfield defence role for PRes? (From: "Re-Royalization")

[MilEME09]

Just wait for a few more "sunny" years.

I already have the idea for the c6 mount for the milcot ready for when those sunny days rust out the rest of our parked trucks

 

[Haggis]

Nobody said that it was. The common term for an improvised armed pick-up truck, Somali-originated, I believe, is a "technical".

Like those used by other "militias"?

 

[CBH99]

Pretty sure a lot of 3rd world countries have access to Toyota Hilux pickup trucks with some big powerful weaponry mounted on the back.  Which, sad to say, is a vast improvement over what a lot of Reserve units have access to!

So 3rd world might actually be a bit of an upgrade...

 

[daftandbarmy]

That’s ok, the reserves can practice their base defense without inconveniencing the air wing personal, except for any poor sod who is on extra duties. The Reserves could generate some extra bodies to take part in base defense exercises during the week day.

I have guarded air bases under threat of ground attack from real, live infiltrators that wanted to blow things up. Me and my troops spent weeks on duty doing this task, off and on.

It was really, really boring and had absolutely nothing to do with being an infantryman, and even less to do with being a member of a large military formation.

In peace/ low intensity conflicts the right people for the job are probably Commissionaires, or equivalent. Real cops if you want to stretch it a bit.

In war time? Armed Commissionaires, or more heavily armed cops. Go ahead and layer on the electric dart teams if you like, of course.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

You could spice it up a bit by using them to fly up North with an advance team to provide security for a remote airfield. I realize it will be boring and certainly would not want them condemned only to that task, but it does make sense to have some experience doing it and it would encourage some cross connection between the RCAF and the local reserves that might generate other more interesting tasks in the future. I am big believer in putting different orgs together and encouraging ground level relationships to form.

 

[Journeyman]

Pretty sure a lot of 3rd world countries have access to Toyota Hilux pickup trucks with some big powerful weaponry mounted on the back.

The US government had bit of a flinch about there being so many ISIS' Hillux, without understanding that there are LOTS of them throughout the Middle East and South Asia....many supplied by US $$,

 

[daftandbarmy]

You could spice it up a bit by using them to fly up North with an advance team to provide security for a remote airfield. I realize it will be boring and certainly would not want them condemned only to that task, but it does make sense to have some experience doing it and it would encourage some cross connection between the RCAF and the local reserves that might generate other more interesting tasks in the future. I am big believer in putting different orgs together and encouraging ground level relationships to form.

It's a good role for the MPs and Armoured Recce, for sure.

 

[McG]

[Airfield defence] had absolutely nothing to do with being an infantryman...

Maybe depending on the threat.  If the threat is more than infiltrators, then infantry is what you want.  If your enemy will launch overt attacks against the facility, then you need an organization that can conduct aggressive patrolling within and around the facility to find/deter the preparations or to counter-attack and defeat any attempts. 

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Plus if the Airfield is nearby, they could do a weekend exercise with minimal costs and use it as a basis to build certain skills on. You could also have the field engineers build some bunkers around it

 

[The Bread Guy]

In peace/ low intensity conflicts the right people for the job are probably Commissionaires, or equivalent. Real cops if you want to stretch it a bit.

In war time? Armed Commissionaires, or more heavily armed cops. Go ahead and layer on the electric dart teams if you like, of course.

This presumes the area of operation has reliable cops to do the job, though.  In Canada, not a problem.  Overseas?  Depends where ...

 

[Zoomie]

Airfield security is not within the skillset of the Commissionaire Corps - certain aircraft require an armed response with 100% coverage.  This is a role that currently the MPs and WASF conduct - the introduction of a PRes element into a Wing would enable weekend and overnight security taskings, without depleting a lodger unit of a trained member.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Airfield security is not within the skillset of the Commissionaire Corps - certain aircraft require an armed response with 100% coverage.  This is a role that currently the MPs and WASF conduct - the introduction of a PRes element into a Wing would enable weekend and overnight security taskings, without depleting a lodger unit of a trained member.

We already tap into our PRes element on a 24/7 basis for security for some of our functions, augmented by WASF when needed.  It works great.  These reserve members are all in the Air Reserve.  There is an Army PRes Unit in the city and I always wondered why (besides the who's going to pay question) we don't tap into this as well.

 

[Ostrozac]

You could spice it up a bit by using them to fly up North with an advance team to provide security for a remote airfield. I realize it will be boring and certainly would not want them condemned only to that task, but it does make sense to have some experience doing it and it would encourage some cross connection between the RCAF and the local reserves that might generate other more interesting tasks in the future. I am big believer in putting different orgs together and encouraging ground level relationships to form.

As a veteran of several Sov Ops, I fundamentally disagree with the use of primary reservists in the Arctic, as when they are (inevitably) snowed in, it has a direct bearing on their civilian employment when the CF can't get them back to their day jobs on schedule. I know that this makes me a heretic, especially when the ARCG concept comes up for discussion, but I've sat for days on Ellesmere Island waiting for a window to fly home -- it was no big deal for me, just another few days on exercise, but for reservists it directly threatens the goodwill of their employers when we can't get them back to their jobs.

I do question whether we need an entire career path for airfield security, though, as has been suggested -- if there aren't enough MPs and infantry, then wouldn't using whatever tradesmen you do have, but using them in a force protection role, be a better stopgap rather than creating a whole career path from Pte to CWO for a bit of a niche role?  I've seen the Navy's force protection teams -- but I think the RCN was just using regular sailors, without a specialized course, the same Cooks/Bosuns/Naval Communicators that guard Her Majesty's Canadian Ships when they are alongside in foreign lands.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It's a fair concern, basically identify that you may be a away week or maybe 2. Some will be able to do that and others won't. Of course it would play hell with the unit's budget.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I do question whether we need an entire career path for airfield security, though, as has been suggested -- if there aren't enough MPs and infantry, then wouldn't using whatever tradesmen you do have, but using them in a force protection role, be a better stopgap rather than creating a whole career path from Pte to CWO for a bit of a niche role?

How dare you insult a whole regiment in the RAF 'Through adversity but not smart enough for the stars'


The ground fighting force of the Royal Air Force. The RAF Regiment provides a range of Force Protection effects underpinned by its air-minded ground fighting capabilities. Whilst providing Force Protection throughout the world for UK Air Asset, the RAF Regiment maintains high-readiness, flexible and increasingly potent contingent capability, be that from Tactical Air Control Parties, contributions to Special Forces operations (Special Forces Support Group), Joint Counter-Terrorism Training and Advisory Group or Delivering the core CBRN for UK defence.

Our Corps is a diverse organization that provides internationally recognised first-rate worldwide Force Protection to UK air assets. Our Officers and Gunners have been deployed on operational service every day since our formation in 1942 and have a proud history that is best characterized by the Regiment's motto 'Per Ardua' - Through Adversity

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafregiment/

 

[MilEME09]

Plus if the Airfield is nearby, they could do a weekend exercise with minimal costs and use it as a basis to build certain skills on. You could also have the field engineers build some bunkers around it

Just have the engineers build and airfield, find a big open field say, hey this is the OP, we need to defense this airfield while it's being built so we can get hurcs in to supply reinforcements/humanitarian/ what ever flavor you want

 

[Monsoon]

I've seen the Navy's force protection teams -- but I think the RCN was just using regular sailors, without a specialized course, the same Cooks/Bosuns/Naval Communicators that guard Her Majesty's Canadian Ships when they are alongside in foreign lands.

So they are, although the RCN's in process of addressing the lack of specific training, which was always a risk. There will still not be a standing unit let alone a specific trade for the capability, however.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I've seen the Navy's force protection teams -- but I think the RCN was just using regular sailors, without a specialized course, the same Cooks/Bosuns/Naval Communicators that guard Her Majesty's Canadian Ships when they are alongside in foreign lands.

Are referring to the Enhanced Naval Boarding Parties or The PRes folks who were employed as gate sentries and harbor patrols or just the regular BDF/BASF force that all CFBs have ?

 

[Ostrozac]

Are referring to the Enhanced Naval Boarding Parties or The PRes folks who were employed as gate sentries and harbor patrols or just the regular BDF/BASF force that all CFBs have ?

I was specifically talking about the second example (PRes folks employed as gate sentries and harbor patrols) as those are the guys I've personally seen and interacted with. It was, I think, a fine example of using available personnel in an "All Arms" force protection role. Not everyone is or needs to be an infantryman, but everyone, regardless of MOS/trade can serve in a force protection role. I'm just not sold on 'force protection' as needing to be a separate career path -- I think that using infantry or MP in force protection duties is fine, using tradesmen in force protection duties is fine, but if you have service members that can only do force protection, then they are kind of a one-trick pony.

And yes, daftandbarmy, I'm talking about the RAF Regiment as an example of what not to do. The UK has the equivalent of 3 battalions of infantry that are not actually trained and organized to operate as infantry if required. That is a severe limitation on the flexibility of the force if the UK is involved in a war that doesn't require airfield force protection. The UK would be way better off rotating the airfield protection task through three light-role infantry battalions by disbanding the RAF Regiment and adding extra battalions of guards, rifles and scots. That way the airfield defence role battalions could eventually rotate through on operations. I don't think a RAF Regiment battalion ever did a roto in Bosnia, Iraq or Afghanistan in an actual infantry brigade -- that seems to be mismanaged manpower.

Or if you want, the RAF Regiment could be badged as two extra para and one extra marine commando battalion. If they are already so elite, they'll have no problem earning their wings and daggers, right?  [

 

[Zoomie]

The Air Force MOSID PRes "Force Protection" trade is coming - it's been debated and discussed at much higher levels than these august forums.

It's not as easy as you might imagine to employ Militia members by the RCAF.  We only do this as a last resort and usually a FPL change warrants it.  Most militia BDEs are hurting for soldiers right now and can barely flush out their CFTPO taskings - it's time for us (RCAF) to have our own fighting force to deploy domestically/internationally.  Before you roll your eyes at my "fighting force" comment - consider that the training of these PRes members would be expected to be on par with a MOSID qualified militia soldier - except the whole living in a trench life.  Consider who acted as gate guards to Mirage, Kandahar, etc - dedicated, training members would file that niche. Needless the say, the next couple of years will be interesting....