CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018

[armyvern]

Question for those who might know:

Is there a list of CF-approved LPO replacement boots for each kind of "issued" boot?  If so...where the hell do you find it?  If not...why not?

It sure would make it easier for all involved.

No there isn't. That's because different boots (and there's hundreds of styles makes out there) work different for different people. And what is available locally differs across the nation.

The regulation is that you have to buy "black" boots. IE: if you buy black boots with orange threading ... I am not going to approve the re-imbursement for them (trust me ... some idiot actually did just that despite having signed the sheet as "read & understood" that he was required to purchase "all black" footwear that resembled military issued footwear. That's the regulation.

Also, if you are LPOing to replace "combat boots" - then the boots that you buy should be all-leather. No gortex crap that essentially makes them something other than a "combat boot". If your LPOing as a replacement for CWWBs ... then buying a gortex and thermal lined boot would be acceptable.
Instead of coming back to see us after 2 months and going "these boots are too hot to wear (cause it's summer and 35 degrees out), so you need to buy me 2 pairs of different ones now." That's been tried too.

You know, one thing I can't issue is common sense; the Supply system needs some of that issued too, but so do a WHOLE lot of soldiers. Seems to be a lot of high priced babysitting going on these days. I AM NOT these guys' momma ... I figure if they're old enough to be in the military they should be old enough to know better, sadly, that's not the case all the time. We can make lists for anything, but if troops just feel free to ignore paperwork they sign anyway (then fight with you for half an hour as to "why your fucked up supply system" isn't willing to pay them for my black boots with orange threading) ... a "list" won't accomplish SFA - it's just a bit more handholding.

Just like the young troop living across the street from me ... fuzzy wolf blanket for a living room curtain with a couple of milk crates for furniture. With a computer sitting on a computer desk ... but a really hot new Porsche sitting in his driveway (where which I am sure his paycheck goes each month paying the insurance and gas on it).  :

 

[gcclarke]

Just like the young troop living across the street from me ... fuzzy wolf blanket for a living room curtain with a couple of milk crates for furniture. With a computer sitting on a computer desk ... but a really hot new Porsche sitting in his driveway (where which I am sure his paycheck goes each month paying the insurance and gas on it).  :

See, what's the point of having a sweet-ass car to use trying to pick up women if you can't even bring them home without completely shattering their impression that you're rich?

 

[X-mo-1979]

We all have been young once!

Remember that Jimmy Gilmer &  Fireballs LP you needed vern.That was 5 cent's...the whole weeks pay at that time.

 

[armyvern]

We all have been young once!

Remember that Jimmy Gilmer &  Fireballs LP you needed vern.That was 5 cent's...the whole weeks pay at that time.

Jeebus ... I had to utilize my googlefu ... I've never heard of these guys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fireballs

1963!!??

My mother was 15 then! I wasn't even thought about until she was 20! Perhaps my mom remembers them though ... I'll ask her next time I'm talking to her!  ;D

 

[X-mo-1979]

lol
Come on sugar shack CLASSIC!

Figured you needed some humour..your lettin the boots get yah down.

 

[armyvern]

lol
Come on sugar shack CLASSIC!

Figured you needed some humour..your lettin the boots get yah down.

I just thought you were calling me old.

;D

 

[danchapps]

I picked up a set of Magnums back in March. Wasn't able to wear them until June due to my, ahem, chain of command (a single person that didn't like the thought of troops buying their own boots.) I tried to explain that I had been wearing them outside of work and they seemed to be helping my ankle recover from an injury suffered over a year before. After said member of my CoC left I asked my Pl Comd if he would mind if I wore them. he didn't give a rats a** about it. I have had 2 flare ups in my ankle since June.... one of them was due to a massive drop in temperature, and only lasted about 3 hours, and the other was after a run (which I despise to start with, due to the previous injury) and didn't last long at all. I love my Magnums, I liked the GP Boot, but loooove the Magnums.

 

[krustyrl]

I like my Magnums (Stealth) as well but it sure doesn't take long for cracks to materialize in these. I had cracks develop after about 3 months wear, despite using polish to keep the leather supple. Turned in a pair that were all cracked along the width on top and the tread was barely scored.
Anyone else have this issue.?

 

[Loachman]

No sign of deterioration in my Magnums after over a year of regular use.

 

[medaid]

I like my Magnums (Stealth) as well but it sure doesn't take long for cracks to materialize in these. I had cracks develop after about 3 months wear, despite using polish to keep the leather supple. Turned in a pair that were all cracked along the width on top and the tread was barely scored.
Anyone else have this issue.?

Polish may be your problem. The only pair of magnums I have ever messed up was by putting polish on it. I use boot paste with it now, and after  3 yrs I have had no problems with any of my other pairs of magnums. I own lots.

 

[YanniHgcck]

Hello everyone!

Im in CFB Kingston, and have been told that I alone cannot wear non issued combat boots unless i can prove that I have a right to. Im not sure if this is the right board, but I was told there is a CANFORGEN stating that only a base commander can say no to non issued boots. I cannot find anything on the DIN. Nor can my clerks help me to find anything.

CAN ANYONE HELP ME TO FIND THIS CANFORGEN, OR ANY OTHER INFO ON NON ISSUED BOOTS??!!

Thank you :-[

 

[George Wallace]

Hello everyone!

Im in CFB Kingston, and have been told that I alone cannot wear non issued combat boots unless i can prove that I have a right to. Im not sure if this is the right board, but I was told there is a CANFORGEN stating that only a base commander can say no to non issued boots. I cannot find anything on the DIN. Nor can my clerks help me to find anything.

CAN ANYONE HELP ME TO FIND THIS CANFORGEN, OR ANY OTHER INFO ON NON ISSUED BOOTS??!!

Thank you :-[

You are in the CF now.  Looking at your post, I think you have your info backwards.  Shouldn't it be that the Base Commander can authorize you wearing the boots, not you deciding for yourself?   

 

[PMedMoe]

Here's the CANFORGEN that came out on 29 Mar:

REF: A. PROCUREMENT ADMINISTRATION MANUAL, A-PP-005-00/AG-001
B. DELEGATION OF AUTHORITIES FOR FINANCIAL ADMINISTRATION FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE AND CANADIAN FORCES HTTP://ADMFINCS.MIL.CA/DFPP/DELEGATION/MATRIX-MATRICE E.XLS)
BILINGUAL MESSAGE / MESSAGE BILINGUE

ADM MAT HAS OBSERVED AND DOCUMENTED THE PROCUREMENT OF OPERATIONAL EQUIPMENT, IN SOME CASES INCLUDING WEAPONS, AMMUNITION, PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT (PPE) AND CLOTHING. FORMATIONS AND UNITS HAVE NEVER HAD THE AUTHORITY TO PROCURE OPERATIONAL EQUIPMENT, IN PARTICULAR WEAPONS, AMMUNITION, OR PPE, AND THIS PRACTICE WILL CEASE FORTHWITH. FUTURE INSTANCES WILL RESULT IN THE REMOVAL OF ALL RELATED DELEGATIONS AND SPENDING AUTHORITY AND DISCIPLINARY ACTION WILL BE RECOMMENDED THROUGH THE APPROPRIATE CHAIN OF COMMAND.

THE SAFETY, PERFORMANCE AND EFFECTIVE INTEGRATION OF PERSONAL EQUIPMENT AND CLOTHING IS AT THE FOREFRONT OF ANY ACQUISITION. THE UNAUTHORIZED PROCUREMENT AND USE OF WEAPONS, PPE AND CLOTHING JEOPARDIZES MISSION SUCCESS AND PERSONAL SAFETY AND WILL NOT BE CONDONED IN ANY FORM. THE MATERIEL GROUP IS THE SOLE AUTHORITY TO ACQUIRE OPERATIONAL MILITARY EQUIPMENT, BASED ON THE REQUIREMENTS SET BY THE CF IAW REFS

 

[George Wallace]

So!  In effect, it states that you are authorized to wear clothing that has been ISSUED to you, and nothing else.  You are NOT AUTHORIZED to wear non-issued clothing.  That would be your boots in this case.  ......... And the "Authority" is much higher up the food chain than the Base Commander.

 

[armyvern]

So!  In effect, it states that you are authorized to wear clothing that has been ISSUED to you, and nothing else.  You are NOT AUTHORIZED to wear non-issued clothing.  That would be your boots in this case.  ......... And the "Authority" is much higher up the food chain than the Base Commander.

No. Operational clothing like vests, camel backs etc.

Clothing is authorized to procure boots/uniforms when the requirement falls into our authorized areas for special sizing and/or medical.

There are COs out there who are having their Unit Acquisition card holders go out and purchase items such as camel backs (an OPERATIONAL clothing item). Things like that are NOT authorized. If it is an item of clothing scale then NO CO has the authority to authorize it's purchase for wear at Unit level. Pers in canada are NOT entitled to the issue of a camel back. yet, there are COs out there buying them with Unit funds so that their troops can wear 'em around base for PT or out in the field.

Short of it - if the only entitlement to the item is for deployed operations ... then no CO can buy it with Unit funds ... nor does he have the authority to order his Pte or Cpl or whoever in the Unit has the acquisition card to buy them. Unlawful and certainly NOT IAW purchasing regulations.

 

[George Wallace]

PPE could include boots.......could it not?  Lineman's boots, etc.?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

As a simple end-user, this is how I see the issue of boots that aren't in the CF standard issue group (i.e. those provided to CF members from the CTS, CEMS, NICE, etc Scales of Issue).

1.  If you have a medical requirement for boots other than the ones provided, you go to the CFHS unit at your base/wing/etc.  I can only speak for Halifax, in which case you report to the foot clinic on the days scheduled for walk-ins.  Again, in Halifax, you can either be referred to by your Health Services folks or self-report.  In the other instance I can think of, it is a SIZE issue vice foot issue, in which case you go see the folks at Supply IIRC from all of the info ArmyVern has posted on the subject on the forum.

2.  The assessment is made by these folks as to what, if anything, you need. 

3.  If you are deemed needing special/LPO boots, then these folks provide you with the paperwork to take to Special Sizes (in Halifax, not sure what it is called at all the other bases). They will then contract your requirement out and you will be called as to where/when to show up for your fitting.

Thats about it, for the end-user, IMO. 

The main point is that you should have either a medical or size requirement before the CF is going to provide you with LPO/special boots.  I know it sucks, and I am not saying I agree with it (I am a supporter of the annual boots allowance concept myself) but that is the way it is currently set up.

Some units may/may not allow their mbrs to wear non-issue boots that were purchased by you with your own funds.  That is up to the Unit CoC.

If you ever sustain an injury to the foot/ankle etc and you weren't wearing approved, issued footwear, you may find that Veterans Affairs will say "sorry" if they find out you were wearing your own boots.

If you need the boots because of medical or sizing issues, you should get special size/fit boots that will be procured and issued to you by your Supply folks, in which case they ARE your issued boots.

:2c:

 

[Occam]

Reviving an older thread to bring up.....yes, again....the issue of boots.

I was successful getting the Air Force (CEMS) CWWB when they were initially issued several years ago.  When the CEMS Temperate WWB rolled out, I thought "Hey, it should be as easy as getting the same size in the TWWB, put my orthotics in them, and I'm good to go!".

Wrong.

Tried out the identical size in the TWWB, and the crease at the back end of the toe (just in front of the laces) digs into the top of my foot.  There's not enough room vertically in the toe for my foot and the orthotics.  So, the next step Clothing Stores has me try out is to go one size wider.  So now instead of a 270/106, now they want me to try a 270/110.  So I try them out, and while there's more room laterally, there's no more room vertically for my foot and the orthotic.

I went into Clothing Stores this morning and told them that size didn't work either, and that I'd like to know what's next.  The fella comes back with a pair of 270/114 boots.  At this point, I'm laughing, because now I'm being asked to wear a boot that's two sizes too wide in order to try and make vertical room in the boot.  I tried it on, and sure enough there's a ton of lateral room in the boot and there's no way I'm taking them.

I asked the fella what's next.  He tells me that I should be aware that they're not buying LPO boots anymore, and that if the CEMS footwear doesn't fit properly, then the only option is to have some place in Gatineau manufacture a custom boot, and that'll take three months minimum.  He tells me that the various stakeholders got pissed off that they spent $150,000 on LPO boots last year, and that it's now been killed.

Knowing that I'd seen a post ArmyVern made on this very topic only last year, does anyone know if there really has been a change in policy before I start waving the CF Supply Manual in anyone's face?

 

[PMedMoe]

does anyone know if there really has been a change in policy before I start waving the CF Supply Manual in anyone's face?

Don't just wave it in their faces.  Smack them with it.  :nod: 

 

[Occam]

Don't just wave it in their faces.  Smack them with it.  :nod: 

Don't tempt me...I'm easily led astray these days!