CAN-USA 2025 Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[Remius]

A little roast to brighten the day. Loving the solidarity so far from the Premiers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyCanadian/comments/1j3wpvh/manitoba_premier_wab_kinew_signs_executive_order

The guy needs to run federally at some point.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Regardless of how this plays out for us, the lesson for the rest of the world is clear: don't enter into a trade agreement with the US. I anticipate that global trade is going to change significantly as companies and countries ensure that their not vulnerable to these same tactics.

Any country under pressure is liable to break agreements, interfere, or ignore selected rules. The pressure doesn't have to be trade-related.

I cannot emphasize enough that the US is probably not more untrustworthy than it historically has been; all of this stems from Trump. It's prudent to assume that relations will normalize after Trump is gone (probably a lot sooner once Americans start feeling the self-imposed damage) and act accordingly with long-term interests in view. Follow the trend line, not the outlier.

 

[Remius]

Any country under pressure is liable to break agreements, interfere, or ignore selected rules. The pressure doesn't have to be trade-related.

I cannot emphasize enough that the US is probably not more untrustworthy than it historically has been; all of this stems from Trump. It's prudent to assume that relations will normalize after Trump is gone (probably a lot sooner once Americans start feeling the self-imposed damage) and act accordingly with long-term interests in view. Follow the trend line, not the outlier.

Again, Trump will be gone at some point. Trumpism will still remain.

 

[PrairieFella]

Well, the trend in social media is moving towards “leftist” or “righty”. Essentially if anything has even the remotest whiff of socialism, lefty and if you disagree with that whiff, righty. It’s shorter, but probably no more accurate.

Any smoothbrain that unironically uses the terms lefty or righty should have their voting rights rescinded. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Again, Trump will be gone at some point. Trumpism will still remain.

What is Trumpism? Immigration enforcement? Common public order? A conservative skepticism of interventionism as compared to the adventurism and irrational expectations of neocons that all you have to do is overthrow dictators and democracy will flourish? Fiscal prudence? Constitutional adherence, particularly to freedoms of expression? A profound intolerance of waste, fraud, and abuse? Putting the interests of Americans first instead of treating US DIME like some sort of bank from which other countries get to make withdrawals?

 

[PrairieFella]

A little roast to brighten the day. Loving the solidarity so far from the Premiers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyCanadian/comments/1j3wpvh/manitoba_premier_wab_kinew_signs_executive_order

Since we're on the topic of Manitoba. Super cool giant flag on the Leg. Who would have thought the Manitoba NDP would be jumping in on the patriotism deepend. I'm glad to have Wab at the helm, despite not normally supporting the NDP.

(Link to YouTube)

 

[IKnowNothing]

Again, Trump will be gone at some point. Trumpism will still remain.

I do question how much of the tariff stuff will be part of the residual Trumpism.

I very much get the vibe that a massive ego with declining mental faculties was sold a bill of goods by a fringe academic (Stephen Miran) and bought in hard. While the seals are clapping along right now, I don't think there's a whole lot of born again Tariff men outside of Trump himself.

 

[PrairieFella]

I do question how much of the tariff stuff will be part of the residual Trumpism.

I very much get the vibe that a massive ego with declining mental faculties was sold a bill of goods by a fringe academic (Stephen Miran) and bought in hard. While the seals are clapping along right now, I don't think there's a whole lot of born again Tariff men outside of Trump himself.

Vance is seeming to be an excellent inheritor to the irrationality. We shall see.

 

[Kirkhill]

So saving people money is "populist bullshit" unless it's a tax cut, because that's a "true conservative" move? Also, how is removing puritanical rules regarding alcohol sales "populist bullshit"?

Mussolini rode to power supplying shoes to barefoot school girls and making the trains run on time.
The French and Russian Revolutions were about bread, as were the disruptions of 1832 and 1848 (It wasn't only the Irish that were starving. The whole of Europe was short of grain and potatoes due to the weather.)

Change happens when governments lose the consent of the governed. One of the biggest problems any authoritarian government that relies on force to support its policies is the loyalty of its enforcers. To whom does the enforcer's greatest loyalty belong: his emperor or his starving mother?

Unhappy people will always, eventually, find their own tribune and turf the old order.

Better to recognize the popular will and accommodate it than stand on principle and oppose it.

 

[Good2Golf]

I cannot emphasize enough that the US is probably not more untrustworthy than it historically has been; all of this stems from Trump. It's prudent to assume that relations will normalize after Trump is gone (probably a lot sooner once Americans start feeling the self-imposed damage) and act accordingly with long-term interests in view. Follow the trend line, not the outlier.

What is the appropriate duration/start/stop/frequency to base the trend line on?

 

[brihard]

Ahem, expert here…it’s a $1.50. I plan my whole waistline around Costco hotdog economics.

Any meaningful discussion of economics needs to correct for the deflationary impact of Costco hotdogs on consumer price statistics.

 

[Eaglelord17]

He needs to act like a Conservative then. Where's my tax cuts Dougie?

Also he needs to dodge the RCMP investigations into his greenbelt/highghway development buyoff situation. That's one of the reasons for the early election call. There is a scandal brewing.

Dougie isn’t conservative in many ways, if anything his policies align closer to the Liberals on most things. It is a large part of why he has managed to stay in power so long and a large part of why the Provincial Liberals are struggling to get back on their feet.

So saving people money is "populist bullshit" unless it's a tax cut, because that's a "true conservative" move? Also, how is removing puritanical rules regarding alcohol sales "populist bullshit"?

It isn’t saving people money, it is pushing debt on to our children. Ontarians will pay for that ‘savings’ one hundred fold in interest.

There is no movement in any of the political parties to actually be conservative fiscally. The best offered is a ‘balanced budget’ and even then that is seen as a aspirational goal rather than what should be the bare minimum.

As to the alcohol sales, I am all for loosening the regulations around it, I hate that we are paying billions in penalties for doing so (which with the interest we will pay on those billions will be much more than the initial amount). That is the populist side of it, the Conservative side would have been waiting until the clock ran out on the contracts.

 

[brihard]

The guy needs to run federally at some point.

What do you think, future federal election including a CPC leader Ford vs an NDP leader Kinew?

 

[Good2Golf]

It isn’t saving people money, it is pushing debt on to our children. Ontarians will pay for that ‘savings’ one hundred fold in interest.

So 10,000% inflation factor?

 

[OldSolduer]

Vance is seeming to be an excellent inheritor to the irrationality. We shall see.

A better word I think would be "duncery" "idiocy" or words like that.

 

[Eaglelord17]

So 10,000% inflation factor?

Not exact amounts but it is like paying the minimum balance on a credit card, you just keep paying. We average about 81.8 billion in interest payments a year currently (provincial and federal combined), or about 1750$ a person a year. Just to simply sustain our debt. I can think of a lot better uses for our money than to pay interest.

 

[OldSolduer]

There is no movement in any of the political parties to actually be conservative fiscally. The best offered is a ‘balanced budget’ and even then that is seen as a aspirational goal rather than what should be the bare minimum.

And this applies equally to city governments - especially Winnipeg - whose city council now wants to float a garbage collection "fee" on top of property taxes and frontage fees, which are taxes.
There is no movement to curb government spending at ANY level.

 

[Good2Golf]

Not exact amounts but it is like paying the minimum balance on a credit card, you just keep paying. We average about 81.8 billion in interest payments a year currently (provincial and federal combined), or about 1750$ a person a year. Just to simply sustain our debt. I can think of a lot better uses for our money than to pay interest.

Ah, I must have been confused by your “thousand-fold” bombast…

 

[Eaglelord17]

And this applies equally to city governments - especially Winnipeg - whose city council now wants to float a garbage collection "fee" on top of property taxes and frontage fees, which are taxes.
There is no movement to curb government spending at ANY level.

It’s all about spending currently, any sort of fiscally responsible measure is a surefire way to not get elected.

My municipality keeps increasing the levy each year despite property values going up which is also raising the amount of property taxes we need to pay accordingly. Then wasting the extra cash on vanity projects which always cost much more than the initial proposed amount.

 

[Kirkhill]

Back to "conservatism" for a moment. One of my great fears with respect to Carney is that he is too conservative. I fear that he wishes to conserve the old green order that he and his cohort have been foisting on us for the last few decades.

I am looking for an agent of change.

I am looking for someone to take advantage of this moment in time and change our national direction here in Canada.

And one element I am looking for is a greater degree of national self-reliance. Not individualism, though I am an individual and hope to be treated as one, but a greater sense of national purpose. And a sense that you can't rely on anybody, especially your neighbours.