US Presidential Election 2020

[suffolkowner]

I don't think people will believe it's in the bag for anyone.  2016 showed the error of assuming that it was decided already.

True but I think Biden will clear 300 unless Comey decides to announce an investigation into Biden's emails

 

[Remius]

True but I think Biden will clear 300 unless Comey decides to announce an investigation into Biden's emails

Some states and counties will be very close.  While he has an easier path to victory than Trump does some of those could easily flip.

Things in his favour

He’s not Clinton.

People are starting to not actually believe the “scandals” that seem too convenient and similar to the last ones that led nowhere.

Less undecided voters

Things against him

Trump’s supporters are more enthusiastic for Trump than Biden Supporters are for Biden

I don’t think Trump has “hidden voters” but he has voters that support him now that didn’t actually vote last time.  That number is unknown.

Either way the US will be getting a very old rambling incoherent white guy.  The one they have or the one they might have.  I believe Americans will decide if the last experiment is worth continuing or not.  It’s a referendum on Trump if anything else.

The key is respecting their decision one way or another.

I doubt it will go down smoothly either way.

 

[brihard]

The choice is Trump and the US as we know it, or Biden and the complete sell out of the free west via China and the radical left.

Canada is already well down that path with the Trudeau liberals, the destruction of Canada's largest economic contributor the O&G industry, socialist agendas, capitulation to China.  And when Trudeau gets a majority next election (with the help of the lost NDP/Green voters and the split on the right via PPC) it could be the final nail in the coffin of what was once a great nation. 

Or is a Trump presidency the only thing left that could save or slow the demise of Canada?  How could a second term Trump America handle a Trudeau majority governed Canada?

I know we've been over this before, but it bears repeating- PPC were an irrelevance last election. At a most generous interpretation they made the difference in 6 seats, where had all of their votes gone CPC, the CPC would have taken it instead of the LPC. Even had that happened, the balance of power woul dhave been exactly as it is now; a LPC minority than any of the other three parties can single handedly prop up. Given that their leader lost his seat and has become increasingly irrelevant, and given the apparent longevity of this minority government, there's no reason to believe that the PPC will be a realistic foil in the next election. If the CPC manage to screw this up, it'll be entirely on their own merits.

As for the 'US as we know it'? Hard pass. The US of a few years ago perhaps, under Obama or Bush, but the US as we know it has morphed in an ugly way, and is at present not a particularly reliable or predictable friend, ally, or trading partner. Canada's interests are best served by a neighbour to our south that has a stable predictability both in our continental relations, and as a pivot point in the larger global order- not one whose interests and motivations you need fear will be redirected by a tweet from the bathroom in a fit of pique over what some news anchor said the night before.

 

[Weinie]

I know we've been over this before, but it bears repeating- PPC were an irrelevance last election. At a most generous interpretation they made the difference in 6 seats, where had all of their votes gone CPC, the CPC would have taken it instead of the LPC. Even had that happened, the balance of power woul dhave been exactly as it is now; a LPC minority than any of the other three parties can single handedly prop up. Given that their leader lost his seat and has become increasingly irrelevant, and given the apparent longevity of this minority government, there's no reason to believe that the PPC will be a realistic foil in the next election. If the CPC manage to screw this up, it'll be entirely on their own merits.

As for the 'US as we know it'? Hard pass. The US of a few years ago perhaps, under Obama or Bush, but the US as we know it has morphed in an ugly way, and is at present not a particularly reliable or predictable friend, ally, or trading partner. Canada's interests are best served by a neighbour to our south that has a stable predictability both in our continental relations, and as a pivot point in the larger global order- not one whose interests and motivations you need fear will be redirected by a tweet from the bathroom in a fit of pique over what some news anchor said the night before.

The reality is that history/politics/alliances/geography links us to the 800 lb gorilla. Whether that is a wise 800 lb silverback, or a deranged phuque monkey that only considers its own welfare, feelings, opinion polls, or its daily tantrums has spill off on us. And there are not a lot of options for us to just say hard pass. We are reliant on the US for our economy......full stop. We either figure out a way to be pragmatic and realistic in our dealings with the US, or the 2030's are going to be very,very difficult for us under the current approach.

 

[Remius]

What is the current approach that isn’t working?  The USMCA was negotiated and is essentially for the most part the same deal.  We pretty much got what we wanted.  The US caved on aluminum tariffs for now.  If anything the current approach has been to navigate the current unstable US leadership with tact and not playing their game and by being tactical about how we retaliate.

 

[FJAG]

What is the current approach that isn’t working?  The USMCA CUSMA was negotiated and is essentially for the most part the same deal.  We pretty much got what we wanted.  The US caved on aluminum tariffs for now.  If anything the current approach has been to navigate the current unstable US leadership with tact and not playing their game and by being tactical about how we retaliate.

As Canadians we should use it's proper Canadian name and thereby confuse our southern cousins and their Mexican ones (where its the T-MEC).

;D

 

[brihard]

The reality is that history/politics/alliances/geography links us to the 800 lb gorilla. Whether that is a wise 800 lb silverback, or a deranged phuque monkey that only considers its own welfare, feelings, opinion polls, or its daily tantrums has spill off on us. And there are not a lot of options for us to just say hard pass. We are reliant on the US for our economy......full stop. We either figure out a way to be pragmatic and realistic in our dealings with the US, or the 2030's are going to be very,very difficult for us under the current approach.

Absolutely. I would just hate to see the Canada/US relationship devolve on a more permanent basis to one that's much more transactional. While nations can very seldom be said to have 'friends', we've been as close as I think can reasonably be found in international relations. While that has never meant full agreeness nor oneness of mind, we've  've until 2016 gotten along much better, much more predictably. Since 2016 we've seen Canada described by the US as a 'security threat', we've been through (and held our own in) a trade war of limited scale (although apparently they're 'easy to win'), we've seen ruptures in international military alliances and operational coalitions...

Pragmatism and realism will always be the order of the day; hitherto we had the ability to be pragmatic and realistic about our relations with the US, in a much more 'friendly' framework. Unfortunately, for four years now that has been a much more difficult environment, entirely due to America's executive leadership. We have also seen the spillover of adversarial social movements that have been catalyzed in the US by that country's extremely... questionable executive. Tied as we are to America culturally, the same flames being fanned south of the border have licked across at times and fueled some of our own dissent and unrest, minor as it's been.

 

[Remius]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/25/media/new-hampshire-union-leader-democrat-endorsement-joe-biden/index.html

So I see a lot of republican type people and or media endorsing Trump.  Are there any Democrat type people or media endorsing Trump?

Would like to see if there might be a Democrat counter or movement against Biden.  Wonder if there might be one should he win.

 

[mariomike]

So I see a lot of republican type people and or media endorsing Trump.  Are there any Democrat type people or media endorsing Trump?

List of Donald Trump 2020 presidential campaign endorsements
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Donald_Trump_2020_presidential_campaign_endorsements

Republican Voters Against Trump
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Voters_Against_Trump

List of Republicans who oppose the Donald Trump 2020 presidential campaign
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republicans_who_oppose_the_Donald_Trump_2020_presidential_campaign

List of Joe Biden 2020 presidential campaign endorsements
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joe_Biden_2020_presidential_campaign_endorsements

 

[QV]

https://www.nysun.com/editorials/president-trumps-promise/91312/

When Americans go to the polls November 3, The New York Sun urges a vote to re-elect President Trump and Vice President Pence. We do so in the belief that the principles for which the President, the Vice President, and the Republican Party stand offer far more promising prospects for the kind of economic growth — and full employment — that can best return our politics to a state of amity.

We have no illusions about how bitter — and personal — things have become. To those who say that Mr. Trump is unfit, we say, compared to whom? Not, in our view, Mr. Biden and his camarilla. In any event, we prefer the advice offered in Cato I, the first of the two letters from the anonymous American revolutionary pamphleteer who enjoins: “Attach yourselves to measures, not to men.”

By our lights, the ad hominem nature of this — and the last — campaign is laid to the Democrats. Shocking is the word for their refusal to accept Mr. Trump’s victory in 2016 and their efforts to foil his presidency. This campaign began even before Mr. Trump swore the constitutional oath. It was, we’ve been learning, set in motion by, in President Obama and Vice President Biden, the highest officers in the country.

From it flowed the vainglory of “the resistance.” It was pressed throughout the government in a campaign of leaks, disparagement, and obstruction. The resistance festered not only within the “deep state” of the executive branch. It saw federal district judges issue nationwide injunctions in policy disputes. And the House impeach the President on a party-line vote on charges that, the Senate concluded, did not stand up.

Worst of all, the resistance to the result of a free election was egged on by the press. Our aging eyeballs have never seen anything like it. The Times announced even before the 2016 election that it was abandoning the ideal of objectivity. Others followed. Today, our biggest social mediums have discovered the only way they can defend the Democratic nominee is by refusing to circulate stories on corruption in his family...

Big win for Trump coming. 

 

[dimsum]

https://www.nysun.com/editorials/president-trumps-promise/91312/

Big win for Trump coming.

Well, I learned one thing today.  I had never heard of the New York Sun. 

 

[Remius]

Well, I learned one thing today.  I had never heard of the New York Sun.

Same.  I looked it up and it went under in 2008.  Came back as an online only format.

 

[mariomike]

I had never heard of the New York Sun.

Neither had I. It was founded by Conrad Black/
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk01idpU1e5yQb-Z0r7TeKrFqcQiUdQ%3A1603731523252&ei=QwCXX-v1DpLdtQbsmalY&q=%22conrad+black%22+%22new+york+sun%22&oq=%22conrad+black%22+%22new+york+sun%22&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQDFAAWABgzSxoAHABeACAAQCIAQCSAQCYAQCqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwiro4i-3dLsAhWSbs0KHexMCgsQ4dUDCAw#spf=1603731621316

Conrad Black
On 15 May 2019, U.S. President Donald Trump granted Black a full pardon.[102][103] Trump noted "broad support from many high-profile individuals who have vigorously vouched for his exceptional character".[104] Black is a friend of Trump and has written flatteringly about him in opinion articles and in the 2018 book Donald J. Trump: A President Like No Other.[105][106] Many news sources linked Black's recent book and his long friendship with Trump to the pardon.[107] The Washington Post noted, "In addition to his book, Black frequently writes columns praising Trump and considers the president a friend".[6] Upon his release from prison, Black had been deported to Canada and barred from entering the U.S. for 30 years;[108] however, the pardon allows him to travel in the U.S.[109]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conrad_Black#Pardon

 

[kkwd]

This guy that Joe mentions doesn't deserve another term.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAR8OAOdzr4

 

[mariomike]

This guy that Joe mentions doesn't deserve another term.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAR8OAOdzr4

Biden was referring to George Lopez to whom he was responding.

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1280&bih=641&tbs=qdr%3Ad&sxsrf=ALeKk01oThJltcVIb2glHdSi03XR44nCbA%3A1603745195889&ei=qzWXX_bdNc-Ogge6rpvACg&q=biden+%22george+lopez%22&oq=biden+%22george+lopez%22&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQDDoNCC4QsQMQgwEQQxCTAjoECAAQQzoGCAAQBxAeOgIIADoCCC46CAgAEAgQBxAeOgQIABANUKCSDliXtg5g6csOaABwAHgAgAGpAYgBzwuSAQQwLjExmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpesABAQ&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwi239e1kNPsAhVPh-AKHTrXBqgQ4dUDCAw#spf=1603745435030

 

[HiTechComms]

Kinda new here.. I am an immigrant and always lived my life as an outsider looking in. One thing that I have learned about Canada and Canadians while living in and out of the country..

Hating on Americans and America is part of the Canadian core identity. We are better than them mentality is very part of core Canadian dogma.

I never understood this and never will.

I cannot vote in American elections I can only vote in Canadian.

Why is it that American elections are more important than Canadian is beyond me.

Any one care to explain?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Easier to ignore your own disastrous Govt. while casting shade on others??

 

[mariomike]

Hating on Americans and America is part of the Canadian core identity.

Is that right?

I married an American.

 

[Remius]

I have American family. With the exception of a few bad apples most Americans that I have met and befriend are very nice,

There are things about parts of America I’ll never understand or like.  If I had to live in another country it would be my first or second choice but it would be in my top 5.

Hate is a strong word and I certainly don’t define my Canadian identity by hating Americans.

I was in Australia before Covid hit.  The ones I was with didn’t have a good impression of Americans and asked what it was like living next to them.  Like they were one yard over lol.

Our identity isn’t shaped by our hatred for the US.  It is likely shaped by being well aware that we have a giant south of us and we celebrate when we sometimes do things better that them.  Keeps us competitive and gives us a measuring bar to try and surpass.  We don’t always but when we do we pat ourselves on the back even if no one is listening.

I observed the same phenomenon in New Zealand vs Australia.

Anyways, we don’t have our own election yet so the only thing on is the US one.  It is important but not more important than our own.  Go look at the Canadian Politics threads here and you’ll see it can get just as lively.

Our elections though are pretty bland by comparison though, way less expensive and much much shorter.  Which is fine by me.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Kinda new here.. I am an immigrant and always lived my life as an outsider looking in. One thing that I have learned about Canada and Canadians while living in and out of the country..

Hating on Americans and America is part of the Canadian core identity. We are better than them mentality is very part of core Canadian dogma.

I never understood this and never will.

I cannot vote in American elections I can only vote in Canadian.

Why is it that American elections are more important than Canadian is beyond me.

Any one care to explain?

I don't think it's a hate relationship; grew up on the border and when there was flood/giant snowfall/icestorm or whatever is was common for one side to send repair assist to the other. We're close neighbours with more in common then apart.

The reason that most Canadians follow their politics closely is that 76% of our exports go across the border, and lots of industries in NAFTA are very closely tied together with just in time inventory practices, so smooth border practices are critical. I've lost a job as a result of tariffs, and most people have either been in the same boat or know someone who has, so I think it's a bit of being wary of the 800 lb gorilla that can ruin your day with something like an unfounded arbitrary tariff or other trade policy that they only put in place to win points in some kind of US election.

It's bad enough getting screwed by your own gov, but it's really crappy to have it come down from another govt, especially for a complete BS reason.

Stuff like the aluminum, steel and wood tarriffs always blow my mind though; they either directly make things cost more for Americans, or directly make the things they make with them more expensive, rendering them less competitive globally.  Especially with the aircraft aluminum that gets used to make planes for the US military; they are effectively paying those tariffs themselves. It demonstrates a massive lack of understanding of basic logistics at the decision maker level, but that doesn't really matter if you get laid off as a result.

Other then that, it's just normal friendly rivalry that pretty much every other country has with another country.