Author Topic: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]  (Read 587101 times)

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Offline Loachman

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1100 on: October 26, 2015, 18:18:17 »
Merged.

Again.

CanadaWest - Please research older threads prior to asking repetitive questions again.

Offline Centril

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1101 on: December 08, 2015, 04:00:29 »
I was looking around for a decisive answer concerning use of cocaine in the past.

Simply put, does past cocaine use disqualify a candidate for entry into the Canadian forces? I couldn't find any information stating that any drug would be an end all, though most of it was about marijuana. I had briefly experimented with it (cocaine), didn't care for it, got over it quickly and moved on.

Thank you for all input.

Offline Ksiiqtaboo

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1102 on: December 08, 2015, 08:38:22 »
Just be honest when filling out the paperwork about how many times you have done it etc. if they find it to be an issue they will tell you, worst that will happen is you will be told to wait a year then reapply or the forces arent for you.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1103 on: December 08, 2015, 08:47:06 »
I was looking around for a decisive answer concerning use of cocaine in the past.

Simply put, does past cocaine use disqualify a candidate for entry into the Canadian forces?

This may help,

Merged drugs thread (previous use, testing, etc.)
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=12779.0
45 pages.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 09:55:44 by mariomike »

Offline mitch.gray

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1104 on: January 12, 2016, 13:18:42 »
Greetings everyone,

I am just trying to find some more information on previous drug use. How long after quitting smoking marijuana, should one wait before applying to the CAF?

look forward to any responces

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1105 on: January 12, 2016, 13:24:45 »
Welcome to "doing research", mitch.gray - enjoy!

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Offline mmmj

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1106 on: May 03, 2016, 20:06:07 »
Hi. I always wanted to join the forces and finally decided to go for it. I went in for my aptitude test today and at the end we were all given questionnaires about past drug use (non prescribed). I have consumed cannabis in the past but quit months ago just for joining the army and have no intention of lighting up again. When asked about past marijuana use i got worried they would not accept me and I lied about not using marijuana in the past. Now i am even more worried about this coming back and ruining my chances at joining. I have been busted for marijuana possession in the past but never charged. i just wanted to know if i completely ruined my chances or should i go in and tell them i lied as soon as possible, or worse keep lying. Please i want answers.   

Offline Inspir

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1107 on: May 03, 2016, 20:18:03 »
You lied. Your integrity will always be called into question now.

Offline Loachman

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1108 on: May 04, 2016, 10:58:25 »
Go and fix your mistake, and tell them why you made it. It is not so much the mistakes that we make that counts, as how we deal with them.

People get nervous. Most people understand that.

And few of us here are in serious contention for sainthood.

Offline Maschinengewehr42

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1109 on: July 24, 2016, 07:22:23 »
Hello,

I have been looking through this thread and cannot see the answer to my question and I also tried to the search function, so I hope this isn't redundant.

I'm applying for direct entry officer.  I have an upcoming aptitude and personality test.  I've seen a few people say that after the aptitude tests, questionnaires about prior drug use are handed out.  Is this still done?

I have no problem discussing prior drug use in detail with a  CAF doctor.  I understand that is part of the process and I am fine with it.  I am uncomfortable with the idea of being given a form with a whole bunch of questions about what I've used and when and then just handing that form off to someone (who, a recruiter?).  Can anyone offer any insight into what reaction I might get if I say that I can't answer the questions on that form right then?  Or do they even hand out those forms after the aptitude tests any more?
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Offline MedCorps

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1110 on: July 24, 2016, 08:07:30 »
I would suggest that if you are not prepared to discuss your previous drug use with a member of the recruiting staff / members of the recruiting staff, you need not apply to the Canadian Armed Forces.

Exploring your previous use of drugs and if it affects suitability for employment is not solely a medical concern, but also has a security, general employment and recruiting policy nexus which is the responsibility of the recruiting staff and not the medical staff. 

MC

Offline Maschinengewehr42

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1111 on: July 24, 2016, 11:54:03 »
I don't have a problem discussing any of this in detail. I'm uncomfortable with just being handed a form to fill out and just handing it off to someone.

I completely expected to be asked about prior drug use. I know it could be a deal breaker. I accept that.

I know prior drug use is a legitimate concern. I am willing to share this info with anyone who really needs to know but I don't want to advertise it or tell anyone who does not really need to know.

  I'm willing to provide whatever medical documentation is required and discuss it in detail. I completely expected to have to get in to uncomfortable subject matter whether it is prior drug use or something else I haven't anticipated. That's fine so I don't think my discomfort with how these kinds of questions are asked should mean that I should not apply.

I asked my GP about this and he said he knows and works with two MDs in the CAF and they handle recruit screening so I got some insight.

I am entirely prepared to talk about drug use even if I was scheduled to go in today. For example, suppose I went in today, expressed my discomfort and they said that I could just talk to an MO first. I would be fine with that because I could ask who needs to know what. I guess I am looking for information about confidentiality because I am only willing to talk about it with people who need to know. It isn't that I am unwilling or unprepared to discuss any of this. My past is my past and I'm not going to hide it from those who need to know in the CAF.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 11:58:08 by OrganishChemiker »
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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1112 on: July 24, 2016, 12:01:08 »
It isn't a fire or forget piece of paper, unless things have changed. They give you the form, you fill it out, and then they discuss with you in the interview phase about each drug and past/current habits.

The biggest thing is don't lie, it WILL come back to haunt you later on in your career, if not immediately during the recruiting process. This information on your drug use is also not going to be discussed at the water cooler. It's a sheet of paper that goes in your file, that only the recruiting staff sees. If you're acceptable and enrolled, that means your past drug use was acceptable to the CAF in that they believe you will abide by our zero tolerance policies, and then the file gets sealed. Its not going to follow you around unless you're applying for TS and above security clearances (which is where lying on the form haunts you)


Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1113 on: July 24, 2016, 12:33:52 »
I don't have a problem discussing any of this in detail. I'm uncomfortable with just being handed a form to fill out and just handing it off to someone.

I completely expected to be asked about prior drug use. I know it could be a deal breaker. I accept that.

I know prior drug use is a legitimate concern. I am willing to share this info with anyone who really needs to know but I don't want to advertise it or tell anyone who does not really need to know.

  I'm willing to provide whatever medical documentation is required and discuss it in detail. I completely expected to have to get in to uncomfortable subject matter whether it is prior drug use or something else I haven't anticipated. That's fine so I don't think my discomfort with how these kinds of questions are asked should mean that I should not apply.

I asked my GP about this and he said he knows and works with two MDs in the CAF and they handle recruit screening so I got some insight.

I am entirely prepared to talk about drug use even if I was scheduled to go in today. For example, suppose I went in today, expressed my discomfort and they said that I could just talk to an MO first. I would be fine with that because I could ask who needs to know what. I guess I am looking for information about confidentiality because I am only willing to talk about it with people who need to know. It isn't that I am unwilling or unprepared to discuss any of this. My past is my past and I'm not going to hide it from those who need to know in the CAF.

How about you either (1) apply to the CAF and accept the way we recruit or (2) don't apply.  You're not a special snowflake.  If you used in the past, that's on you.  The CAF shouldn't have to accommodate your discomfort over your past stupid choices.

This generation of "I don't like this, you should change for me" people really drives me.  You come off as one of them.

Do the recruiting process like everyone else.  Or don't.  We have enough special snowflakes in society, we don't need them in  the military (and there are enough of them these days in uniform as well...).

The CAF has decided 'who really needs to know' about your drug use.  As stated, its not just MOs. 
Everything happens for a reason.

Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions.

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1114 on: July 24, 2016, 13:02:32 »
On that same note, if you can't own up to your past drug use, how can you expect your subordinates to own up and speak to you if they have a drug problem? You're applying to be an officer in the Regular Force, that means if you have troops under you, their problems become your problems.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1115 on: July 24, 2016, 14:19:33 »
Let's put it this way; the doctor is not the person who will be hiring you.

The recruiter is the person who is sifting through all the information and making the decisions as to whom the CAF hire.  If a recruiter feels that a person is not being truthful or otherwise deceptive in their application, they will terminate that application.
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Offline Maschinengewehr42

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1116 on: July 24, 2016, 14:50:32 »
On that same note, if you can't own up to your past drug use, how can you expect your subordinates to own up and speak to you if they have a drug problem?

I do not have any problem admitting to or talking about any of my past drug use in detail with those who need to know.

You have a good point about being able to have subordinates trust me.  This seems to be a bit of a tricky problem, because I do see some attitudes that suggest if a person has ever smoked pot that they aren't reliable at all.  I think I could run into that kind of attitude, so it would be pretty stupid to tell people under me right off the bat about everything, nor do I think that it would be necessary or expected of me to tell them everything.  I think it is reasonable that I should have some discretion about it (and again, in terms of telling people who do not need to know). 

Of course I wouldn't want subordinates to feel that they can't approach me, especially if it were about a drug problem.  I'm sure that members of the military who do develop drug problems while on active duty must be incredibly fearful of being judged by their peers and facing negative consequences - much more so than people in civilian life.  I don't think it would be an easy balance because I think being too open with people who don't yet know you might lose confidence in you if you disclose too much right away.  It does take time to develop trust with people.

Quote
You're applying to be an officer in the Regular Force, that means if you have troops under you, their problems become your problems.

You do have a very good point and I appreciate your feedback.  I think personal questions like these are anxiety provoking for most people.  I think it would be more worrying if an applicant were happy to list all of the drugs they have ever used because it would almost be like they are happy to brag about it.  I think this thread largely exists because it's normal for people to get anxious about being asked personal questions, especially when it involves things that they aren't entirely happy about and that people might judge them for.  I hope I've made clear that I do not have a problem admitting to any drug use.  Most of my drug use was over ten years ago anyway. 

Still, let's put it this way: I've never intravenously administered a drug to myself, but if someone asked me, "Have you ever used needle drugs?" I wouldn't want to answer the question (again, even though the answer is "no").  It's about knowing who is asking the question, why they're asking it and who will have access to that information.  I think most people who have never used a needle drug would happily answer the question and I'm sure my reluctance to answer would be looked at with suspicion, but I feel like that about any personal question: just being happy about the answer doesn't mean that I will want to answer the question.

----------------------------------
Merging two responses
----------------------------------

Puck Chaser,


Thank you for both of your replies.  My apologies for applying to them piecemeal but I only saw one initially.

I have no intention of being dishonest.  I take the idea of working for the CAF seriously.  Past drug use is a legitimate concern and it should be.  I know that drug use is unacceptable in the military.  I know myself that I would not use drugs while employed by the CAF. 

What you told me has already set my mind at ease.  I don't think it should be too surprising that I was thrown off by how these questions might be asked.  It's just the kind of thing that I want to know that nobody can have access to except those who need to know.

I mentioned (or implied) that I would prefer to answer these questions in a face to face conversation.  I think it is much more difficult to answer questions like this in a face to face discussion.

It's more about the being asked to fill out a form like that and possibly not knowing who gets access to the information and worrying that the information might be seen by someone who doesn't need to know.

I knew that it would not only be MOs who I would discuss this with.  It's really about knowing who needs what information ahead of time.  I didn't mean to imply that I would only speak with this kind of thing to an MO, but I'd want to be told who needs to know what.

Eye in the Sky,
Quote
How about you either (1) apply to the CAF and accept the way we recruit or (2) don't apply.

I know my feelings are not entirely rational, but they're feelings so that's how they work (i.e. they aren't rational), so I asked.  I don't see any harm in asking questions. I think it is better that I ask questions.

I could also express my discomfort and ask the recruiter to tell me who receives this information.  Maybe it would say on the sheet, but it's the not knowing that causes me to worry.   My concerns about confidentiality are legitimate.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 15:04:19 by OrganishChemiker »
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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1117 on: July 24, 2016, 15:24:18 »
If you're going to ask, don't center it around drugs. Ask the recruiting cell about their privacy policy in general they'll likely explain this:

This is something you wouldn't know as a civilian, but most of these recruiting documents become Protected A or B. That means no one can just open the file and have a read, there's a need to know required in the performance of military duties.

Offline Maschinengewehr42

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1118 on: July 24, 2016, 20:59:10 »
Thank you, I am satisfied with those answers.
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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1119 on: July 27, 2016, 17:34:16 »
I expect the CAF to have a conservative attitude towards drugs.  I believe that abstinence from psychoactive drugs is the best policy in the military and civilian life.  It is self-evident to me that I perform much better when I abstain from any intoxicating substance (this would include alcohol but not necessarily caffeine). 

My job is not to try to educate a recruiter about drugs and I would only say something like what follows if I were unable to avoid the topic.

Suppose a recruiter asked something like, "Don't you know that LSD stays in your spinal column forever and damages chromosomes?" 

I would have to give an honest answer, which would be something like, "LSD use does have risks but the idea that LSD stays in the body or spinal column forever is a myth.  The evidence suggesting LSD damages chromosomes does not stand up to scrutiny."

What kind of scientist would I be if I changed my answers just because I think someone won't like them? 
If I am directly asked for my opinion on something like this then I have to answer honestly.

I could easily add that the most relevant risks of LSD use are for people with a family history of mental illness, especially psychotic illnesses like bipolar disorder with psychotic features and schizophrenia, because it could precipitate a psychotic episode.  Also, there is a danger of getting hurt by doing something stupid, either because of being so intoxicated that one decides driving a car is a good idea, for example, or they think their friend's balcony is only a few feet off the ground when in fact it is 10 stories up.  I dislike anti-drug myths because they confuse people and can lead people to distrust the authorities.  Also, people will continue to use drugs and they should be informed of real dangers, not imaginary dangers.

I guess the best I can do is go in and give honest, thoughtful answers and hopefully they will see that I do not advocate drug use; that I think abstinence from psychoactive drugs is generally the best policy for everyone; and that my use is in the past and I am fine with abstaining from psychoactive drugs.

I suspect specific details like in my example won't come up, but I am concerned that I'll have to give answers that someone in the recruiting process will think are nonsense and the facts aren't going to matter. I know the only real way to find out is to go in and just talk with the recruiter when it comes up.

I am fairly confident that I can explain myself but I know that the CAF probably wouldn't like some of my answers.  I understand the concern about allowing in applicants who admit to violating the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, because it would cause them to wonder how they can know I won't break the law again.  I hope that they make their decision based on who I am now, rather than whether I checked the 'wrong' box on the form of which drugs I have tried.

EDIT - I am always happy to provide references and cite sources for my claims.  I always do my best to meet my burden of proof.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 18:16:23 by Maschinengewehr42 »
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Offline Loachman

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1120 on: July 27, 2016, 18:30:01 »
If I only knew who your recruiter was, I'd pay them good money to ask that question.

Offline Jed

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1121 on: July 27, 2016, 19:56:55 »
I expect the CAF to have a conservative attitude towards drugs.  I believe that abstinence from psychoactive drugs is the best policy in the military and civilian life.  It is self-evident to me that I perform much better when I abstain from any intoxicating substance (this would include alcohol but not necessarily caffeine). 

My job is not to try to educate a recruiter about drugs and I would only say something like what follows if I were unable to avoid the topic.

Suppose a recruiter asked something like, "Don't you know that LSD stays in your spinal column forever and damages chromosomes?" 

I would have to give an honest answer, which would be something like, "LSD use does have risks but the idea that LSD stays in the body or spinal column forever is a myth.  The evidence suggesting LSD damages chromosomes does not stand up to scrutiny."

What kind of scientist would I be if I changed my answers just because I think someone won't like them? 
....

Answer: You would be a climatologist.   8) [:D
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Offline GAP

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1122 on: July 27, 2016, 20:00:41 »
 :rofl:
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I´m not so sure about the universe

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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1123 on: July 27, 2016, 20:07:21 »
Answer: You would be a climatologist.   8) [:D


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Re: Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]
« Reply #1124 on: July 28, 2016, 01:20:47 »
If I only knew who your recruiter was, I'd pay them good money to ask that question.

Well, at the very least it would give me a good story.  Some of these myths are so strongly believed that they seem self-evident.  I think his jaw would just drop open.

More than likely it won't come up.  Hopefully it is so far in the past that it won't really matter.  I have not used many drugs prohibited by the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act (CDSA) and most of that was 14 years ago or longer.

Jed: I'm not a climatologist.  I think when it comes to climate the difficulty in making accurate predictions is that the Earth is not a simple system.  Climate can reach a dynamic equilibrium and then become chaotic.  It's hard to predict and models have to be constantly refined.

I like to argue, not in the sense of screaming back and forth at another person, but having a rational argument about something which we disagree on.  I'm a bit iconoclastic maybe.  It is unfortunate that funding sources can cause conflicts of interest and bias in science.  Good scientists should always be trying to set up experiments that would prove their hypotheses wrong.  Look at the pharmaceutical industry and how they don't have to disclose all of their data.  A pharmaceutical firm could do 100 clinical trials on a drug they are developing and find that only 2 of those trials gave the results they want to see.  They then only publish those 2 trials.  I think that is dishonest: it is lying by omission.

Then, of course, some pharmaceutical firms do dishonestly market their products, such Pfizer's marketing of Neurontin (gabapentin) for unapproved (i.e. "off-label") uses.  Or look at Purdue Pharma's dishonest marketing of Oxycontin, the time-release version of oxycodone.  They claimed that their product would be less addictive than immediate release opioid drugs simply because it would not hit the user all at once.  I don't know how MDs could have believed such a thing.  Pharmaceutical chemists have been trying to separate the euphoric properties of opioids from their analgesic properties since the elucidation of morphine's structure, well over a century ago, and nobody has been successful.  Any drug that acts as an agonist at the mu opioid receptor will cause analgesia and euphoria.   Suddenly Purdue Pharma comes along and claims their powerful narcotic product might be less addictive just because it is a time release formulation.  I just don't see how MDs could have believed that.  Indiscriminate prescribing of Oxycontin has been a big part in causing the heroin epidemic that the USA (and Canada) are facing.  Purdue Pharma paid a $600 million fine.  I'm sure that's peanuts compared to the profit they made from Oxycontin which came on the market in 1996.

My apologies if this is too off-topic.  I'm not trying to derail the thread.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 01:51:14 by Maschinengewehr42 »
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