Author Topic: Report: Facts About Migrants Don't Always Match What The Headlines Say  (Read 8441 times)

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Offline Dimsum

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Shockingly, the facts don't line up with the soundbites of populist leaders.  Who would have thought?

Quote
A new report by a commission empaneled by University College London and the Lancet medical journal offers a thorough — and often surprising — look at the medical and economic impacts of immigration.

Twenty public health researchers from 13 countries worked on the project for two years, reviewing nearly 300 studies, primarily from this decade but going back as far as 1994. Populist leaders, they say, have painted a picture of migration today as primarily hordes of destitute people flooding into rich countries, carrying diseases and sucking up resources. The truth, they say, is far different.

According to the International Organization for Migration, the U.N.'s migration agency, today more than one billion people live in a region other than where they were born. A quarter of them live in a different country, the rest have relocated within their homeland. They are a mix of refugees from war-torn areas and climate change refugees fleeing heat waves, droughts or rising sea levels, along with job seekers and students who've paid their own way to enroll in universities in other countries.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/12/06/671879631/report-facts-about-migrants-dont-always-match-what-the-headlines-say?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=203008&fbclid=IwAR0VqV-SXKsdvmcXVh37utjOK6Wcxkr8iZMpuidoQw9l3BvFIOKKUyRRink
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Offline Journeyman

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Shockingly, the facts don't line up with the soundbites of populist leaders.  Who would have thought?
     Inconceivable!    ???

Offline daftandbarmy

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“To stand on the firing parapet and expose yourself to danger; to stand and fight a thousand miles from home when you're all alone and outnumbered and probably beaten; to spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary.”
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Offline Brihard

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At a fertility rate of 1.8 children per woman in the state’s, they need migration (same with us at 1.6). Without births sufficient to replace the popluation (approx 2.1 per woman), they need people moving in to sustain population growth.
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Offline Teager

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At a fertility rate of 1.8 children per woman in the state’s, they need migration (same with us at 1.6). Without births sufficient to replace the popluation (approx 2.1 per woman), they need people moving in to sustain population growth.

But having less children fights climate change. :sarcasm

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But having less children fights climate change. :sarcasm
Well, I combine eating a plant-based diet with recycling -- I recycle plants through cows, pigs, and chickens;  I also filter my water through a brewery first.    :nod:

Offline Eye In The Sky

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According to the International Organization for Migration, the U.N.'s migration agency

Unfortunate it didn't come from a credible source. 

Another odd coincidence, this is just before the date the Compact is signed.


Offline Jarnhamar

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At a fertility rate of 1.8 children per woman in the state’s, they need migration (same with us at 1.6). Without births sufficient to replace the popluation (approx 2.1 per woman), they need people moving in to sustain population growth.

Can't speak for the US but Canada could make it easier and cheaper for Canadians to raise kids.  Then maybe we'd be closer or over that 2.1.
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Offline Dimsum

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Can't speak for the US but Canada could make it easier and cheaper for Canadians to raise kids.  Then maybe we'd be closer or over that 2.1.

At the risk of a tangent, how much of the current reluctance to have kids is because people can't afford it, rather than other reasons (career, just not liking kids, etc)? 
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Very good question.  At $1000 a month in day care I couldn't afford a other but maybe money isn't the contributing factor for most.
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Offline JesseWZ

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Re: Report: Facts About Migrants Don't Always Match What The Headlines Say
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2018, 13:06:45 »
Very good question.  At $1000 a month in day care I couldn't afford a other but maybe money isn't the contributing factor for most.

I've got 2 kids under 5 (with another on the way). If we wanted to do daycare, it would basically eat up the entire salary my spouse would make having the kids in care - negating any point at all to the exercise. We do however get 689.00 every month from the guv'ment for our two kids... so even stevens? :dunno:
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Offline Strike

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Re: Report: Facts About Migrants Don't Always Match What The Headlines Say
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2018, 14:06:07 »
Unfortunate it didn't come from a credible source. 

Another odd coincidence, this is just before the date the Compact is signed.

Talk about using a quote out of context.  To provide context here is the full phrase:
Quote
According to the International Organization for Migration, the U.N.'s migration agency, today more than one billion people live in a region other than where they were born.

As to the voracity of the study:
Quote
A new report by a commission empaneled by University College London and the Lancet medical journal offers a thorough — and often surprising — look at the medical and economic impacts of immigration.

And to further back up where the data came from:
Quote
Twenty public health researchers from 13 countries worked on the project for two years, reviewing nearly 300 studies, primarily from this decade but going back as far as 1994.

What you just did was called "Confirmation bias." As in, just because there was a nugget of info that came from the UN then the whole study is crap.  Talk about throwing out the baby with the bath water.
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Offline Remius

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Re: Report: Facts About Migrants Don't Always Match What The Headlines Say
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2018, 14:24:33 »
Talk about using a quote out of context.  Talk about throwing out the baby with the bath water.

And this brings us to Dimsum's original point.  The circle is now complete.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Report: Facts About Migrants Don't Always Match What The Headlines Say
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2018, 14:30:02 »
Talk about using a quote out of context.  To provide context here is the full phrase:
As to the voracity of the study:
And to further back up where the data came from:
What you just did was called "Confirmation bias." As in, just because there was a nugget of info that came from the UN then the whole study is crap.  Talk about throwing out the baby with the bath water.

I don't consider the UN to be an extremely credible organization.  You can call it confirmation bias or whatever the PAO buzz word you want.  I consider "historical events" and a record of being a bureaucratic clusterfuck that lets innocent people die, or in some cases, get slaughtered, while it effectively does nothing about it.  It's not JUST the UN record in *peacekeeping*.  Go have a read of some of the space treaties, and then ask yourself how 'effective' those are.  2 extremely quick and easy examples of why I don't hold the UN in very high regard. 

They release an article about a study saying "everyone misunderstands migration" a few days before the Migration Compact.  Surprise.

* edit - I also find it curious you're quick to point out what you see as my bias, but you don't see any bias in an article about the UN, supported by an organization that is a child to the parent UN organization.  Interesting.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 15:29:15 by Eye In The Sky »

Offline CloudCover

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Re: Report: Facts About Migrants Don't Always Match What The Headlines Say
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2018, 15:16:18 »
The quoted section in the OP coyly notes that 25 percent of migrants are people who have relocated outside of home country, which means 3/4 have migrated “within their homeland”.  By that definition, I have migrated at least 6 times, unless they mean motherland, in which case I’m too old to migrate to Norway and thus destitute and offended.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Report: Facts About Migrants Don't Always Match What The Headlines Say
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2018, 16:23:17 »
This is good stuff from StatsCan....

Patterns and Determinants of Immigrants’ Sense of Belonging to Canada and Their Source Country

This study assesses immigrants’ acculturation profiles as measured by their sense of belonging to Canada and their source country. Using a large nationally representative sample of 7,003 immigrants in Canada from over 100 countries, this study finds that the overwhelming majority of immigrants have a strong sense of belonging to Canada with or without a strong sense of belonging to their source country. Source-country attributes are as important as immigration entry status and post-migration experience in affecting immigrants’ sense of belonging to Canada and their source country.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11f0019m/11f0019m2016383-eng.htm
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Online Blackadder1916

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Re: Report: Facts About Migrants Don't Always Match What The Headlines Say
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2018, 18:02:41 »
. . .

* edit - I also find it curious you're quick to point out what you see as my bias, but you don't see any bias in an article about the UN, supported by an organization that is a child to the parent UN organization.  Interesting.

Did you read the report (or the article)?  I'm a little confused by the above.  How are University College London and The Lancet connected to the United Nations?  While some UN agencies may be mentioned in the report and some UN generated statistics may have been studied in the preparation of the report that is a far cry from being "child to the parent UN organization".   I thought the article (which is from NPR, do you think this is also a UN controlled organization) was about the conclusions presented in the UCL/Lancet report not about the UN or any of its subsidiary bodies.  If I've erred in my interpretation, please enlighten me.

The report is available on-line at The Lancet (though you do have to register to get it)
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)32114-7/fulltext


I've included the executive summary here for discussion.  For clarity (mine probably more than others) I've included the "Key Messages" at the end of the summary and in italics rather than putting them in a separate box placed midway in the summary as formatted in the on-line report - there are limitations with the forum format.


Quote
Executive summary

With one billion people on the move or having moved in 2018, migration is a global reality, which has also become a political lightning rod. Although estimates indicate that the majority of global migration occurs within low-income and middle-income countries (LMICs), the most prominent dialogue focuses almost exclusively on migration from LMICs to high-income countries (HICs). Nowadays, populist discourse demonises the very same individuals who uphold economies, bolster social services, and contribute to health services in both origin and destination locations. Those in positions of political and economic power continue to restrict or publicly condemn migration to promote their own interests. Meanwhile nationalist movements assert so-called cultural sovereignty by delineating an us versus them rhetoric, creating a moral emergency.

In response to these issues, the UCL-Lancet Commission on Migration and Health was convened to articulate evidence-based approaches to inform public discourse and policy. The Commission undertook analyses and consulted widely, with diverse international evidence and expertise spanning sociology, politics, public health science, law, humanitarianism, and anthropology. The result of this work is a report that aims to be a call to action for civil society, health leaders, academics, and policy makers to maximise the benefits and reduce the costs of migration on health locally and globally. The outputs of our work relate to five overarching goals that we thread throughout the report.

First, we provide the latest evidence on migration and health outcomes. This evidence challenges common myths and highlights the diversity, dynamics, and benefits of modern migration and how it relates to population and individual health. Migrants generally contribute more to the wealth of host societies than they cost. Our Article shows that international migrants in HICs have, on average, lower mortality than the host country population. However, increased morbidity was found for some conditions and among certain subgroups of migrants, (eg, increased rates of mental illness in victims of trafficking and people fleeing conflict) and in populations left behind in the location of origin. Currently, in 2018, the full range of migrants' health needs are difficult to assess because of poor quality data. We know very little, for example, about the health of undocumented migrants, people with disabilities, or lesbian, gay, bisexual, transsexual, or intersex (LGBTI) individuals who migrate or who are unable to move.

Second, we examine multisector determinants of health and consider the implication of the current sector-siloed approaches. The health of people who migrate depends greatly on structural and political factors that determine the impetus for migration, the conditions of their journey, and their destination. Discrimination, gender inequalities, and exclusion from health and social services repeatedly emerge as negative health influences for migrants that require cross-sector responses.

Third, we critically review key challenges to healthy migration. Population mobility provides economic, social, and cultural dividends for those who migrate and their host communities. Furthermore, the right to the highest attainable standard of health, regardless of location or migration status, is enshrined in numerous human rights instruments. However, national sovereignty concerns overshadow these benefits and legal norms. Attention to migration focuses largely on security concerns. When there is conjoining of the words health and migration, it is either focused on small subsets of society and policy, or negatively construed. International agreements, such as the UN Global Compact for Migration and the UN Global Compact on Refugees, represent an opportunity to ensure that international solidarity, unity of intent, and our shared humanity triumphs over nationalist and exclusionary policies, leading to concrete actions to protect the health of migrants.

Fourth, we examine equity in access to health and health services and offer evidence-based solutions to improve the health of migrants. Migrants should be explicitly included in universal health coverage commitments. Ultimately, the cost of failing to be health-inclusive could be more expensive to national economies, health security, and global health than the modest investments required.

Finally, we look ahead to outline how our evidence can contribute to synergistic and equitable health, social, and economic policies, and feasible strategies to inform and inspire action by migrants, policy makers, and civil society. We conclude that migration should be treated as a central feature of 21st century health and development. Commitments to the health of migrating populations should be considered across all Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) and in the implementation of the Global Compact for Migration and Global Compact on Refugees. This Commission offers recommendations that view population mobility as an asset to global health by showing the meaning and reality of good health for all. We present four key messages that provide a focus for future action.


Key messages

•  We call on nation states, multilateral agencies, non-governmental organisations, and civil society to positively and effectively address the health of migrants by improving leadership and accountability. First, we urge the UN to appoint a Special Envoy on Migration and Health and national governments to have a country-level focal point for migration and health. This would enable much needed coordination and also ensure that migrants are included in all decisions about their health. Second, we propose that a Global Migration and Health Observatory is established to develop evidence-based migration and health indicators to ensure better reporting, monitoring, transparency, and accountability on the implementation of the Global Compact for Migration and the Global Compact on Refugees.

•  International and regional bodies and states should re-balance policy making in migration to give greater prominence to health by inviting health representatives to high level policy making forums on migration. Health leaders and practitioners should fully engage in dialogues on the macroeconomic forces that affect population mobility and participate in multisector budgeting and programme planning for migrants.

•  Racism and prejudice should be confronted with a zero tolerance approach. Public leaders and elected officials have a political, social, and legal responsibility to oppose xenophobia and racism that fuels prejudice and exclusion of migrant populations. Health professionals' and organisations' awareness of racism and prejudice should be strengthened through regulatory and training bodies including accreditation, educational courses, and continuous professional development. Civil society organisations should hold leaders to account to ensure the implementation of these obligations.

•  Universal and equitable access to health services and to all determinants of the highest attainable standard of health within the scope of universal health coverage needs to be provided by governments to migrant populations, regardless of age, gender, or legal status. Solutions should include input from migrants and be specific to the diverse migrant populations. For those exposed to disaster or conflict, or both, mobility models and Disaster Risk Reduction systems should be integrated. Targeted interventions to improve the rights of migrant workers, their knowledge of workplace health and safety, and entitlement to health care are needed.

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Offline kkwd

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Re: Report: Facts About Migrants Don't Always Match What The Headlines Say
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2018, 22:50:31 »
Pew Research Center recently released a survey related to migration titled "Many worldwide oppose more migration – both into and out of their countries". It is real world interviews with country residents.

First para of the piece
Quote
As the number of international migrants reaches new highs, people around the world show little appetite for more migration – both into and out of their countries, according to a Pew Research Center survey of 27 nations conducted in the spring of 2018.

The methodology is here http://www.pewresearch.org/methodology/international-survey-research/international-methodology/global-attitudes-survey/all-country/2018/
It lays out each country where surveys were conducted and details the methods used and sample size.

The topline Questionnaire is here http://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/FT_18.12.10_MigrationViews_Topline2.pdf

In the survey it identifies a major problem people have with migration, outmigration. Many people view it as damaging to their country. Except for a couple of countries
Quote
In fact, since 2002, the only surveyed countries where worries over emigration due to jobs abroad have declined significantly are Germany and Canada. The share who say outmigration is a big problem in Germany fell by almost half (from 64% in 2002 to 33% in 2018), while the share in Canada declined from 55% to 37%.


I don't subscribe to forced acceptance. I'll make up my own mind. Diversity of thought and opinion is essential.

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Report: Facts About Migrants Don't Always Match What The Headlines Say
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2018, 13:26:00 »
>how much of the current reluctance to have kids is because people can't afford it

Define "can't afford".  I've been to most of the houses in which my grandparents and great-grandparents raised families of 4 to 10 kids, and am aware of how limited were their means.
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Report: Facts About Migrants Don't Always Match What The Headlines Say
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2018, 18:25:42 »
>how much of the current reluctance to have kids is because people can't afford it

Define "can't afford".  I've been to most of the houses in which my grandparents and great-grandparents raised families of 4 to 10 kids, and am aware of how limited were their means.

I'm sure many things remain the same as back when. However, many families have two working parents now, to make ends meet. My parents raised 8 kids in a three bedroom tenement. Dad was a mechanic. Mom stayed home. Times were simpler then. Wages and costs were commensurate. Today wages are higher, but costs are starting to outstrip what people can buy with their money.

People making high wages can afford niceties. Unfortunately, many many people have much less disposable income to play around with.

All to say, I guess, that we can't compare yesteryear to current conditions. What used to be, no longer holds true.

Can people still have 8 kids, properly raise them and maintain a household on today's factory wages, with only one working parent? I suppose, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to lower their living standard in order to do it.

Just my random thoughts.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Report: Facts About Migrants Don't Always Match What The Headlines Say
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2018, 20:25:46 »
I'm sure many things remain the same as back when. However, many families have two working parents now, to make ends meet. My parents raised 8 kids in a three bedroom tenement. Dad was a mechanic. Mom stayed home. Times were simpler then. Wages and costs were commensurate. Today wages are higher, but costs are starting to outstrip what people can buy with their money.

People making high wages can afford niceties. Unfortunately, many many people have much less disposable income to play around with.

All to say, I guess, that we can't compare yesteryear to current conditions. What used to be, no longer holds true.

Can people still have 8 kids, properly raise them and maintain a household on today's factory wages, with only one working parent? I suppose, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to lower their living standard in order to do it.

Just my random thoughts.

A guy I met earlier this year has 11 kids and a good job at a pulpmill in Northern BC. He was a very happy guy!
“To stand on the firing parapet and expose yourself to danger; to stand and fight a thousand miles from home when you're all alone and outnumbered and probably beaten; to spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary.”
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Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: Report: Facts About Migrants Don't Always Match What The Headlines Say
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2018, 21:13:09 »
Unfortunate it didn't come from a credible source. 

Another odd coincidence, this is just before the date the Compact is signed.

The Lancet isn't credible??????

Ahh...I see others have also wondered about that

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Re: Report: Facts About Migrants Don't Always Match What The Headlines Say
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2018, 22:06:57 »
The Lancet isn't credible??????

Ahh...I see others have also wondered about that
Not that it takes much away from the article (if anything), but one of the key supporting docs used by the authors in the Lancet is from the UN.
https://www.iom.int/wmr/world-migration-report-2018

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since 3 in 4 of the people categorized as migrants are also characterized as internal migrants- you know, like people who move back and forth from Fort McMurray to the Rock.
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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Report: Facts About Migrants Don't Always Match What The Headlines Say
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2018, 00:06:05 »
>I suppose, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to lower their living standard in order to do it.

Bingo.  And you don't even need to extend the thought experiment beyond 1 or 2 kids.  The answer is "won't", not "can't".

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