Author Topic: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges  (Read 10679 times)

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Offline FJAG

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #50 on: November 24, 2019, 20:53:54 »
Spencer's resignation letter is here:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/24/politics/read-navy-secretary-richard-spencer-resignation-letter/index.html

Particularly noteworthy is this part:

Quote
...
As Secretary of the Navy, one the most important responsibilities I have to our people is to maintain
good order and discipline throughout the ranks. I regard this as deadly serious business.
The lives of our
Sailors. Marines and civilian teammates quite literally depend on the professional execution of our many
missions. and they also depend on the ongoing faith and support of the people we serve and the allies we serve
alongside.

The rule of law is what sets us apart from our adversaries. Good order and discipline is what has
enabled our victory against foreign tyranny time and again, from Captain Lawrence's famous order "Don't
Give up the Ship", to the discipline and determination that propelled our fag to the highest point on lwo Jima.
The Constitution, and the Uniform Code of Military Justice, are the shields that set us apart, and the beacons
that protect us all.
Through my Title Ten Authority, I have strived to ensure our proceedings are fair,
transparent and consistent, from the newest recruit to the Flag and General Officer level.

Unfortunately it has become apparent that in this respect, I no longer share the same understanding
with the Commander in Chief who appointed me, in regards to the key principle of good order and discipline. I
cannot in good conscience obey an order that I believe violates the sacred oath I took in the presence of my
family, my flag and my faith to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.


...

Equally disturbing is that the Secretary of Defence Esper has decided that Gallagher will keep his SEAL status:

Quote
Esper decided Gallagher would now keep his status because he "has little confidence that Gallagher would get a fair shake now from the Navy," the official told CNN.

A damning statement to come from the top. Looks like Esper clearly knows whose butt to keep his head up.

Let the spin masters begin their craft.

 :stirpot:
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Offline Brihard

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #51 on: November 24, 2019, 20:59:37 »
Spencer's resignation letter is here:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/24/politics/read-navy-secretary-richard-spencer-resignation-letter/index.html

Particularly noteworthy is this part:

Equally disturbing is that the Secretary of Defence Esper has decided that Gallagher will keep his SEAL status:

A damning statement to come from the top. Looks like Esper clearly knows whose butt to keep his head up.

Let the spin masters begin their craft.

 :stirpot:

Spencer has my respect for standing on principle on this one. Now let’s see someone from the army side have the stones to stand up to POTUS over him pardoning one convicted war criminal, and stopping another murder trial from going forward. The military stands to suffer a lot of damage from those decisions on his part.
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Online Blackadder1916

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #52 on: November 24, 2019, 21:40:49 »

Spencer has my respect for standing on principle on this one. . . .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_V._Spencer
Quote
. . .  Spencer served in the U.S. Marine Corps from 1976 to 1981 as a Marine Aviator . . .

Once a Marine, always a Marine.  Semper Fi.

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Offline Journeyman

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #53 on: November 28, 2019, 10:30:06 »
If anyone wants some background reading on the Gallagher issue, there's a relevant thesis from the US Naval Postgraduate School, "SEALs Gone Wild: Publicity, Fame, and the Loss of the Quiet Professional."

It's from 2015, which suggests this isn't a new, unknown crisis.


Online Blackadder1916

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #54 on: November 28, 2019, 11:05:26 »
If anyone wants some background reading on the Gallagher issue, there's a relevant thesis from the US Naval Postgraduate School, "SEALs Gone Wild: Publicity, Fame, and the Loss of the Quiet Professional."

It's from 2015, which suggests this isn't a new, unknown crisis.

I found the last line in the thesis most telling . . . "the quickest way to lose the respect of the American people is to become too enthralled with ourselves" .
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Offline milnews.ca

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #55 on: November 28, 2019, 16:08:17 »
In further developments, this from the USN info-machine ...
Quote
As Acting Secretary of the Navy, I have directed the Chief of Naval Operations to terminate the Trident Reviews for three Naval Special Warfare officers. Given the unique circumstances of these three remaining cases, I have determined that any failures in conduct, performance, judgment or professionalism exhibited by these officers be addressed through other administrative measures as appropriate, such as letters of instruction or performance observations on their officer fitness reports.

The United States Navy, and the Naval Special Warfare Community specifically, have dangerous and important work to do. In my judgment, neither deserves the continued distraction and negative attention that recent events have evoked. Our special operators are part of a unique fighting force that has been at war for nearly 20 years. We ask them to meet a very high standard of competence in the use of deadly force, matched by an equally high standard for ethical behavior in combat. This expectation is no higher than the standard our special warriors have set for themselves. The SEAL ethos states this standard quite clearly:

“I serve with honor on and off the battlefield. The ability to control my emotions and my actions, regardless of circumstance, sets me apart from other men. Uncompromising integrity is my standard. My character and honor are steadfast. My word is my bond.”

My decision in these three specific cases should not be interpreted in any way as diminishing this ethos or our nation’s expectations that it be fulfilled. Navy uniformed leaders have my full confidence that they will continue to address challenging cultural issues within the Naval Special Warfare community, instill good order and discipline and enforce the very highest professional standards we expect from every member of that community. These are standards that scores of brave Sailors have given their lives to establish and preserve. It is our obligation to honor their sacrifice, and the values of our nation, in everything we do in peace, in crisis, but most especially in war. We can, we must, and we will get this right.

                                                                                       THOMAS B. MODLY

                                                                                       Secretary of the Navy (Acting)
More from Stars & Stripes:
Quote
Three Navy SEAL officers will not face a peer-review board, the Navy announced Wednesday, days after Chief Petty Officer Eddie Gallagher had his own review board halted by the defense secretary.

Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly directed the Chief of Naval Operations, Adm. Michael Gilday, to stop the “Trident reviews,” according to a statement from Modly. The three SEALs were not named in the statement, but Lt. Cmdr. Robert Breisch, Lt. Jacob Portier and Lt. Thomas MacNeil, who had supervised Gallagher during his deployment to Iraq, were informed last week by Rear Adm. Collin Green, the Naval Special Warfare commander, that they would face a review board in early December.

“Given the unique circumstances of these three remaining cases, I have determined that any failures in conduct, performance, judgment, or professionalism exhibited by these officers be addressed through other administrative measures as appropriate, such as letters of instruction or performance observations on their officer fitness reports,” Modly said in the statement ...
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Offline FJAG

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #56 on: November 28, 2019, 16:36:53 »
That's a well phrased response in light of the ridiculous situation Trump has created for his chain of command.

One can only hope that the military can continue to weather a commander in chief who uses "his warfighters" as a political tool.

Quote
The concerns about the President's war crimes interventions come on top of long-simmering frustrations at the Pentagon.

Altogether, the strain on the military is palpable, said Mark Hertling, a former commanding general of the US Army in Europe.
"It may not break, but it sure the hell is being bent by this and increasingly becoming brittle," said Hertling, a CNN military analyst. "Senior leaders ... if they're confused about what the missions are, what the strategy is, they have to put on a poker face. And sometimes the things they're being asked to do are impossible and go against all of their military experience and knowledge."

Pentagon sources describe meetings in which senior officials have struggled with what they described as the President's mercurial moods, lack of focus, impulsive decision-making and resistance to information that doesn't fit his views.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has described Trump's approach by saying that his "experience with the President is that he makes decisions and then absorbs data and facts."

Military officials have tried to navigate Trump's decisions-first, facts-later approach since he took office, but they tell CNN they are more uneasy than ever about his behavior given impeachment inquiry pressures and the looming 2020 campaign.

They express discomfort about Trump's politicization of the military and his attacks on individual servicemembers, such as Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, the NSC official who testified before the House impeachment inquiry. After Trump targeted Vindman, the decorated war veteran reached out to the Army about his family's safety.

Trump's attacks led Gen. Joseph Dunford, who was just hours before retiring from his own 40-year career, to take the extraordinary step of opposing the President to defend Vindman, who had served on his staff.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/27/politics/pentagon-concern-trump-decision-making/index.html

 :facepalm:
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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #57 on: November 28, 2019, 18:15:46 »
If I was running DoD I would be retiring as many generals and Colonels as I could and handing out pink slips to the civilians.

Offline QV

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #58 on: November 28, 2019, 18:18:57 »
If I was running DoD I would be retiring as many generals and Colonels as I could and handing out pink slips to the civilians.

Something like Leslie's Transformation Report.   

Offline CloudCover

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #59 on: November 28, 2019, 18:21:53 »
The orderly US military command structure is the biggest threat to a disruptive Trump after it became clear to him their loyalty is not unquestioning fealty. Undermining good order and discipline weakens common purpose instilled by unified command. This only serves to benefit Trump. Does anyone think he’s bright enough to have figured that out in his own ...

The decision noted above that was made by Acting Secretary Modly somewhat sideswipes Trumps ability to torque the issue, at least temporarily.  Query whether the leadership of the US armed forces themselves are sliding into administrative and potentially political insurgency mode. He’s already interfered with rule of (military) law and perverted the course of justice in other ways. He’s seen full ranking military officers publicly object to his conduct and testify about it. On the other hand, is there some reason to suspect he may have at least tacit or even firm support from a good chunk of the rank and file? He’s drawing strength from somewhere to push these buttons. It’s ugly, scary and sad.
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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #60 on: November 28, 2019, 18:32:30 »
Until those officers who came up under Obama are retired then you will continue to see LTC Vindmans.

Offline MrWhyt

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #61 on: November 28, 2019, 18:54:15 »
Until those officers who came up under Obama are retired then you will continue to see LTC Vindmans.
so you want to purge the army of brave and honorable officers who speak up and risk their careers when thy see something wrong?

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #62 on: November 28, 2019, 19:45:57 »
Until those officers who came up under Obama are retired then you will continue to see LTC Vindmans.
Just remember - if someone supports a political purge of the military (think USSR, North Korea or China as examples of places where this has happened) when one's fave party is in power, can someone then complain if a party they don't like does the same thing?  Everybody OK if Obama or Clinton had, say, said a SEAL in a similar situation MUST lose the Trident without due process?  It's aaaaaaall great as long as your team does it, but let the other team try it ... #GoodForTheGooseGoodForTheGander
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #63 on: November 28, 2019, 21:50:59 »
Waiting for William Calley to be pardoned...

Offline GAP

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #64 on: November 28, 2019, 22:32:41 »
Waiting for William Calley to be pardoned...

I think he is already out of jail....
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Offline FJAG

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #65 on: November 28, 2019, 22:52:50 »
I think he is already out of jail....

Long ago. His sentence was reduced to 10 years (I think) and he was paroled with a third of his sentence served. That was the end of things.

He still carries a conviction.

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #66 on: November 28, 2019, 23:09:42 »
Until those officers who came up under Obama are retired then you will continue to see LTC Vindmans.

so you want to purge the army of brave and honorable officers who speak up and risk their careers when thy see something wrong?

As a result of his testimony, Lieutenant Colonel Vindman, a Purple Heart recipient, has to put up with this,
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/19/politics/vindman-trump-attack-army-safety/index.html

Offline Eaglelord17

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2019, 06:10:22 »
Until those officers who came up under Obama are retired then you will continue to see LTC Vindmans.

So are you just pretending those officers didn't spend decades in the military well before Obama ever became President? Are you pretending they haven't earned their positions on merit instead claiming its political patronage? Because even if political patronage is a small part of it, they still had to earn the ability to get to the point to even be considered.

You guys really need to make your military impartial, which is what it was until Trump started putting his nose in stuff which as Commander and Chief wasn't his problem. The Navy was doing its job, punishing a criminal, and Trump stepped in and perverted the military justice system. Its disgraceful. The fact that an individual who dodged military service has the audacity to interfere is disgusting and if you support that, you really should look at what you stand for as those are the actions of a tyrant, not a fair and democratic process like the one he subverted.



Staff edit: site politics thread policies
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 20:27:08 by BeyondTheNow »

Offline exCAFguy

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #68 on: November 29, 2019, 09:22:53 »
As a result of his testimony, Lieutenant Colonel Vindman, a Purple Heart recipient, has to put up with this,
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/19/politics/vindman-trump-attack-army-safety/index.html

Put up with what?  The LTC made claims he fears for his family, but never elaborated as to how they are at risk and the Army concluded at the moment there appears to be no imminent threat to anyone.

So what exactly is he putting up with?  Career fallout maybe?  Sure...but that’s to be expected when you challenge your political masters, VAdm Norman comes to mind here.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #69 on: November 29, 2019, 09:39:01 »
If anyone wants some background reading on the Gallagher issue ….
This is followed-up with an insightful War on the Rocks article, "Disgraceful Pardons: Dishonoring Our Honorable."


Two key takeaways (for me anyway):

1.  That the president announced action on all three cases at the same time is particularly concerning, even though the cases involved different issues, as it seems designed to send a broader message about war crimes and military professionalism in general.

2.  There are no political “sides” here to rally around or to be used to score political points over. Rather, we should rally around justice and the rule of law.

Offline mariomike

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #70 on: November 29, 2019, 09:58:45 »
Until those officers who came up under Obama are retired then you will continue to see LTC Vindmans.

The LTC made claims he fears for his family, but never elaborated as to how they are at risk and the Army concluded at the moment there appears to be no imminent threat to anyone.

US politics aside, good to know the Army takes the security of his family seriously.
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNR4T1utfNwm7C2vDogFUxGWH6GQrw%3A1575039638159&ei=ljLhXYWeCa-Mggf0gLrwCA&q=vindman+family+protection&oq=vindman+family+protection&gs_l=psy-ab.12...7037.8305..9783...0.0..0.252.1019.1j6j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......35i39j35i304i39.Mx3B2l480YA&ved=0ahUKEwiFwY7x14_mAhUvhuAKHXSADo4Q4dUDCAo#spf=1575039651859

Offline exCAFguy

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #71 on: November 29, 2019, 10:26:32 »
US politics aside, good to know the Army takes the security of his family seriously.
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNR4T1utfNwm7C2vDogFUxGWH6GQrw%3A1575039638159&ei=ljLhXYWeCa-Mggf0gLrwCA&q=vindman+family+protection&oq=vindman+family+protection&gs_l=psy-ab.12...7037.8305..9783...0.0..0.252.1019.1j6j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......35i39j35i304i39.Mx3B2l480YA&ved=0ahUKEwiFwY7x14_mAhUvhuAKHXSADo4Q4dUDCAo#spf=1575039651859

Again, nowhere has the LCol or Army elaborated on how there is a threat and the Army has determined there is nothing credible at this point.  Every article listed there simply states the Army is prepared to post him if he or his family is threatened.

Every article on the matter I’ve read here is sensational nonsense.  This LCol has said he fears for his safety, but has never elaborated as to how.  The army determined there’s nothing credible but are prepared to post him if need be.  The press is writing this up like Trump has dispatched hit squads after the guy......it’s pretty ridiculous.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 10:29:05 by exCAFguy »

Offline QV

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #72 on: November 29, 2019, 11:18:35 »
I don't think anyone on here has the details of each case along with the legal analysis and recommendations POTUS had prior to making his decision.  I won't pretend to know anything about these cases, but I may consider MSM reporting to form my opinion on whether I am accepting of POTUS's decision here... I'm sure the MSM are reporting nothing but the hard, unbiased facts in all these cases like every instance involving POTUS.     

After all, it's been proven by Mueller, Schiff et al that POTUS is a Russian asset doing Putin's bidding and destroying democracy, using the Ukraine to enrich his family and target honest hard working American politicians-for-life, while bringing about nuclear Armageddon, destroying the last remnants of a fragile yet angelic military hierarchy, reviving racism as his sole domestic policy in an effort to win votes, ruining woman's and LGQBT rights for a generation, and wrecking the US and world economic structure.  And on and on...

So, yes, I suppose if you believe all of that then POTUS most certainly did the wrong thing here as well.           

Offline Brihard

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #73 on: November 29, 2019, 12:32:04 »
I don't think anyone on here has the details of each case along with the legal analysis and recommendations POTUS had prior to making his decision.  I won't pretend to know anything about these cases, but I may consider MSM reporting to form my opinion on whether I am accepting of POTUS's decision here... I'm sure the MSM are reporting nothing but the hard, unbiased facts in all these cases like every instance involving POTUS.     

After all, it's been proven by Mueller, Schiff et al that POTUS is a Russian asset doing Putin's bidding and destroying democracy, using the Ukraine to enrich his family and target honest hard working American politicians-for-life, while bringing about nuclear Armageddon, destroying the last remnants of a fragile yet angelic military hierarchy, reviving racism as his sole domestic policy in an effort to win votes, ruining woman's and LGQBT rights for a generation, and wrecking the US and world economic structure.  And on and on...

So, yes, I suppose if you believe all of that then POTUS most certainly did the wrong thing here as well.           

This is one of the most ridiculous rants I’ve seen posted here. While I often disagree with you, I seldom find your posts disappointing.

POTUS pardoned one man convicted in a court of law of posing for photos with a corpse. There’s no credible question as to the factual veracity of that. He then interfered with internal mechanisms that are designed to review a soldier’s career status after a conviction. He pardoned a soldier literally convicted of murder. There is again no credible question as the to factual veracity of that conviction. Finally he has used executive authority to stop another murder trial going forward. A soldier charged with murder will NOT see court and will quite literally get away with anything he may have been culpable of. The facts of that alleged murder will NOT get to be tried in court, where they ought to be. And given POTUS’ notorious disinclination to spend much time reading or digesting facts before making political decisions, I find your ‘well we don’t know what he knew...’ particularly convincing. There is no shortage of public record in all of these cases, two of which had already resulted in convictions in court.

Tell me, when else recently has the subject come up of a head of government using his authority to stop a prosecution going forward, allegedly for political purposes? What was your opinion then?

Trump is legally empowered to do these things, and unfortunately has chosen to wield that power in these cases. There’s a rare degree of consensus from legal and military experts that this is a wrong thing to do, due to the ethical and legal ramifications, and the way it compromises good order and discipline in the military institution.

All of the other stuff you bring up is frankly no more than partisan whining. It certainly does not bear relevance on the merits of Trump’s actions in the case of the two criminal convictions and the pending court martial. The rest of the circus, legal and political, that surrounds him is not automatically pertinent to each decision made and action taken. Nor does it render us unable to examine said actions and point out the obvious and significant ethical and legal problems that they present senior military leadership.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: USN SEAL Eddie Gallagher Not Guilty on 6 of 7 Charges
« Reply #74 on: November 29, 2019, 12:45:09 »
Not media, but the publicly available results of Gallagher’s court martial which found him guilty of desecrating and posing with the corpse of an enemy combatant, which is counter both to the US Code of Service Discipline and the Law of Armed Conflict.  POTUS’s exoneration of Gallagher’s conduct indicates that such unlawful conduct is actually okay.  No media analysis used, just One of the transmission mediums used to distribute the court martial findings. POTUS hasn’t even disputed the facts from the court martial, rather only used his executive authority to counter the administrative action of demotion taken against Gallagher by the Navy. 

Regards
G2G

« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 13:28:58 by Good2Golf »