Author Topic: Fmr MCpl Patrik Mathews - facing U.S. federal charges/alleged white supremacist  (Read 26001 times)

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #75 on: August 22, 2019, 17:03:18 »
I remember his name. I will not post it.

Why not?


Quote
I think I can guess who you may be referring to.
I'm not too sure.

I felt like the point he was trying to drive home was that while Neo-Nazis C18 and Blood & Honour are reprehensible they may not be the nation shattering security risk they're being made out to be.

Which leads me to a weird moments reflection of mine and how much the medias shapes our lives.

When Russel Williams committed his crimes I didn't feel tarnished by his actions at all. Nothing to do with me or my service. He's a psycho murder that just happened to work in the same 95'000 strong corporation that I do.

The other day I (white,shaved head, beard, tattoos) was in uniform walking past crowds of Muslim men women and children in what appeared to be a predominately Muslim neighborhood*.  My first thought was I wonder if they think I'm a neo-nazi like that MCpl allegedly is. And it was such a weird thing because I've never thought of someone seeing me like that before.

Why would that pop in my head?  Is it because Canada (including the military) has "a neo-nazi problem"? Numbers don't seem to support that.
Guilty by association? I don't feel associated with other CAF members doing stupid crap.
Is it because the media has pushed a subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) narrative these last few years that conservatives mean right wing and right wing means racists and nazis?

 :Tin-Foil-Hat:

*want to mention they were absolutely polite and friendly with me. Hit some of em with the old you like army video games? how about camping and shooting guns? Suckers.
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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #76 on: August 22, 2019, 18:14:40 »
Sometimes early takes on stories become amusing as details emerge over time.  Current headlines on cbc.ca:

"Reservist suspected of neo-Nazi ties prompts questions about whether signals missed by military" (older)

"Top general says military started dealing with suspected neo-Nazi in the spring" (newer)

The how-did-they-miss-what-the-reporter-found story is dead; emphasis should shift to regardless-we-need-more-precautions (a "system" will never be perfect, so the latter is evergreen; no mitigation can ever converge on goalposts as they recede into the distance).
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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #77 on: August 22, 2019, 19:55:19 »
The how-did-they-miss-what-the-reporter-found story is dead; emphasis should shift to regardless-we-need-more-precautions (a "system" will never be perfect, so the latter is evergreen; no mitigation can ever converge on goalposts as they recede into the distance).
Perhaps eventually things will swing around to the "How did something the military was dealing with for months end up on the front page of a newspaper followed shortly by a high-profile arrest, days after MND announced his anti-racism initiative two months before an election?" angle.

Nah, it never seems to make it that far, does it.

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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #78 on: August 22, 2019, 19:57:38 »
I remember his name. I will not post it.

Just curious but why?
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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #79 on: August 22, 2019, 20:31:44 »
I just don't buy into the ideas he's selling. I see no need to promote him.
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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #80 on: August 22, 2019, 21:11:18 »
Great points, Jarnhamar -- guilt by association sucks & shouldn't happen, but some people paint groups with a broad brush based on the idiocy of a few thanks to narratives being pushed all over the place, not just by MSM.  It only takes a few idiots to make any group look bad, and undereducated media doesn't help.
... walking past crowds of Muslim men women and children in what appeared to be a predominately Muslim neighborhood ... want to mention they were absolutely polite and friendly with me ...
You've given a fair bit of thought to how you felt in the situation, so how about a slightly different variation on the same theme?  Wonder how these folks feel after an attack ISIS/Daesh takes credit for?  Whether they wonder if people looking at them think they're terrorists?  If they feel associated with other Muslims doing stupid crap?  Whether they consider any ISIS-linked attacker a psycho murderer that just happens to be associated with the same million or so member religion here in Canada* that they are?

* - Source
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 21:44:39 by milnews.ca »
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #81 on: August 22, 2019, 21:40:49 »
Thanks Milnews. Already picking up what you're laying down :)

When something happens in the news we race to look for crap to be outraged about. Canadian soldier killed overseas. It's been half a day, why didn't Trudeau tweet his sympathies? Whats taking him so long to acknowledge the death? He doesn't sound sincere. He hates the army. There was a right wing extremist attack, why hasn't Sheer condemned alt-right and racism yet? He tweet sympathies but he doesn't sound sincere. He's racist.

On that note, when there's an Islamic attack it seems like there's a pressure for Muslims to apologize for the attack or loudly proclaim they don't support Islamic violence and they condemn the attacks. Why should Muslims feel obligated to apologize for what another Muslim does? I don't think they should. Same goes for us and people being assholes in uniform. Why do we need to apologize? We don't. Off track a bit sorry.
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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #82 on: August 22, 2019, 21:47:19 »
When something happens in the news we race to look for crap to be outraged about.
That.  Right.  There.  And from all sides. #TheOutrageBusNeedsPassengers

Same goes for us and people being assholes in uniform. Why do we need to apologize? We don't.
Agreed.
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Offline BeyondTheNow

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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #83 on: August 23, 2019, 06:13:17 »
Quote
On that note, when there's an Islamic attack it seems like there's a pressure for Muslims to apologize for the attack or loudly proclaim they don't support Islamic violence and they condemn the attacks. Why should Muslims feel obligated to apologize for what another Muslim does? I don't think they should. Same goes for us and people being assholes in uniform. Why do we need to apologize? We don't. Off track a bit sorry.

Apologizing on behalf of a group or family in any way affiliated with an individual (or persons in some cases) who conduct themselves poorly is necessary. Why? Because many outsiders are prone to blanket thinking. Sure, CAF doesn’t have to apologize/denounce, religious groups don’t have to apologize/denounce, family members of murderers, etc. don’t have to apologize for the actions of anyone who tarnishes their reputation. But it’s the first step in damage control, as well as expressing empathy and sympathy where appropriate to those who have been affected. Also, by not acknowledging the behaviours in any fashion, it can be construed as the groups being apathetic, or passively allowing the actions to continue.

I agree that many media outlets inflate, exaggerate and often bring unnecessary negative attention to situations. But for any largely visible corporation, organization or group, or even smaller and more private circles (such as a family), it’s more or less essential for someone to express openly that the actions of one do not/should not reflect on the rest of the population. Again, it’s because too many are very narrow in their thinking and find it easy to blacklist an entire area of people.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 06:28:03 by BeyondTheNow »
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #84 on: August 23, 2019, 11:29:16 »
Why not?

I'm not too sure.

I felt like the point he was trying to drive home was that while Neo-Nazis C18 and Blood & Honour are reprehensible they may not be the nation shattering security risk they're being made out to be.

Which leads me to a weird moments reflection of mine and how much the medias shapes our lives.

When Russel Williams committed his crimes I didn't feel tarnished by his actions at all. Nothing to do with me or my service. He's a psycho murder that just happened to work in the same 95'000 strong corporation that I do.

The other day I (white,shaved head, beard, tattoos) was in uniform walking past crowds of Muslim men women and children in what appeared to be a predominately Muslim neighborhood*.  My first thought was I wonder if they think I'm a neo-nazi like that MCpl allegedly is. And it was such a weird thing because I've never thought of someone seeing me like that before.

Why would that pop in my head?  Is it because Canada (including the military) has "a neo-nazi problem"? Numbers don't seem to support that.
Guilty by association? I don't feel associated with other CAF members doing stupid crap.
Is it because the media has pushed a subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) narrative these last few years that conservatives mean right wing and right wing means racists and nazis?

 :Tin-Foil-Hat:

*want to mention they were absolutely polite and friendly with me. Hit some of em with the old you like army video games? how about camping and shooting guns? Suckers.

A male with a shaved head and a beard, in a Muslim community? You could probably pass as a local :)

Tangentially, there's alot of research out there about the media and stereotyping, viz:

"In many cases the immediate effects of stereotype activation fade after a few minutes, but regardless of their duration, each activation reinforces stereotypic thinking in the long run. Additionally, evidence suggests that once a stereotype is activated, it can be reactivated by something as simple as a disagreement with someone in the stereotyped group, and if brought to mind frequently enough, can become chronically accessible (Ford, 1997; Kunda, Davies, Adams, & Spencer, 2002). Thus, even though media-based stereotypes may seem harmless when considered individually, their cumulative effect over time can be substantial."

https://secure.understandingprejudice.org/apa/english/page16.htm
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Offline Singh47

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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #85 on: August 26, 2019, 08:58:41 »
I feel like a lot of people hate me for existing. Speaking to other Sikh there's a similar sentiment that the majority of the forces don't care or are actively involved in making us feel unwelcome.

I sincerely hope this probe will change the army culture and make others more aware of matters of perception.

A funny example is someone asking me a question about Sikhi then complaining to a warrant that I'm trying to push my beliefs on people.

There's a certain mindset that there are a single set of Canadian norms and values which must be obeyed by everyone. Any deviation must be punished systematically, and frankly this perception is extremely racist no matter who it's coming from.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 09:01:54 by Singh47 »

Offline FSTO

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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #86 on: August 26, 2019, 09:02:53 »
I feel like a lot of people hate me for existing. Speaking to other Sikh there's a similar sentiment that the majority of the forces don't care or are actively involved in making us feel unwelcome.

Since its Monday I'll have to ask you this. Are you saying that that the CAF doesn't care that you are Sikh? Or that the CAF is actively discriminating against your faith?

Offline Remius

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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #87 on: August 26, 2019, 09:24:25 »
I feel like a lot of people hate me for existing. Speaking to other Sikh there's a similar sentiment that the majority of the forces don't care or are actively involved in making us feel unwelcome.

How do you figure the majority?  I don't hate you for existing.  But I'm not the majority so I don't know for sure.  My colleagues wouldn't hate you for existing either.

I would start to hate you if you failed to return my calls, not show up when you said you would or fail to follow direction.  But that has nothing to do with your faith. 
Optio

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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #88 on: August 26, 2019, 09:54:20 »
I feel like a lot of people hate me for existing.
I just took a quick look through your posting history;  I suspect it may not be your mere existence that causes peoples' negative feelings -- it may be a reaction rather than some overarching bigotry.

 :2c:

Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #89 on: August 27, 2019, 23:36:43 »
The inevitable and expected reaction, though maybe a little earlier than expected.  Interesting to note that he, supposedly, already had his release in, though his release item will likely not be the one that he expected.  However, unless reserve release administration has improved considerably since my time, he possibly could have been on the books for another couple of years if this situation hadn't come up.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/patrik-mathews-fired-1.5262197
Quote
Army reservist fired over alleged links to neo-Nazi group

Master Cpl. Patrik Mathews 'will not be returning to work,' military says

Ahmar Khan · CBC News · Posted: Aug 27, 2019 9:07 PM CT

An army reservist whose alleged links to a neo-Nazi group led to a raid on his rural Manitoba home last week has been fired, according to the Department of National Defence.
 
Master Cpl. Patrik Mathews, a member of the Winnipeg-based 38 Canadian Brigade Group, "will no longer be a participant in military activities in any form, and will not be returning to work," a military spokesperson wrote in an email to CBC News.

"This action was deemed necessary, considering the seriousness of the allegations and the risk to unit morale and cohesion."
 
The military and RCMP are investigating his alleged ties to The Base, an organization that promotes hate, for which he is alleged to have recruited. Posters for the group began popping up around Winnipeg in late July.
 
Mathews requested a release from the Canadian Armed Forces in April, according to the spokesperson. It is not known why. He was with the Forces for eight years, worked as a combat engineer and was trained in the use of explosives.
 
The RCMP raided Mathews' home in Beausejour, Man. last week and seized multiple firearms. He has not been charged with a crime.

'Favoured recruiting ground'
 
Mubin Shaikh, a former CSIS analyst and counter-terrorism expert, says he wasn't surprised by Mathews' removal, and says the publicity surrounding the story might have contributed to the decision.
 
"It's hard to know if the public pressure is what forced the hand of the Canadian Forces in this regard," Shaikh told CBC News.
 
He says there might be others in the military with similar ideologies.
 
"The military is a favoured recruiting ground for white supremacists. It's also a place where they've long since talked about obtaining training by joining the military," Shaikh said.
 
But this case also hands the military an opportunity to weed out extremists.
 
"The Canadian Armed Forces is going to use to use this as an instance, as an example, as precedent," said Shaikh.

"I can guarantee you that there are soldiers all over the country reading that story and getting the message that, listen, we literally can't be a Canadian and a supporter of Naziism."
 
Further details about Mathews are covered under the Privacy Act and the military declined further comment.
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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #90 on: August 28, 2019, 07:57:08 »
I feel like a lot of people hate me for existing. Speaking to other Sikh there's a similar sentiment that the majority of the forces don't care or are actively involved in making us feel unwelcome.

I sincerely hope this probe will change the army culture and make others more aware of matters of perception.

A funny example is someone asking me a question about Sikhi then complaining to a warrant that I'm trying to push my beliefs on people.

There's a certain mindset that there are a single set of Canadian norms and values which must be obeyed by everyone. Any deviation must be punished systematically, and frankly this perception is extremely racist no matter who it's coming from.

Going over your posts, and the replies to them, I'm forced to come to the conclusion that the only person who has a problem with you being a Sikh, is you.
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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #91 on: August 28, 2019, 12:36:32 »
Not that I am sticking up for this particular individual...but aren't they just allegations at this point...the whole "innocent until proven guilty" concept?

Unless he is being released as if nothing had happened...isn't giving him an unfavourable release item at this point pre-emptive?

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #92 on: August 28, 2019, 12:52:52 »
Quote from: Blackadder1916
The inevitable and expected reaction, though maybe a little earlier than expected.  Interesting to note that he, supposedly, already had his release in, though his release item will likely not be the one that he expected.  However, unless reserve release administration has improved considerably since my time, he possibly could have been on the books for another couple of years if this situation hadn't come up.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/patrik-mathews-fired-1.5262197

Couple questions come to mind.

Quote
This action was deemed necessary, considering the seriousness of the allegations and the risk to unit morale and cohesion.

Would this fall under the umbrella of being treated guilty without being found guilty? Does the CAF treat sex offenders in our ranks the same way?

Quote
"The military is a favoured recruiting ground for white supremacists. It's also a place where they've long since talked about obtaining training by joining the military," Shaikh said.

And in the last 10 or 15 (or 20?) years there were those 16 cases of members with ties to hate groups. Or even the 60 associated with. Is the military really afavored recruiting ground? Are they just really unsuccessful? Or really good at hiding it?


Quote
Mathews requested a release from the Canadian Armed Forces in April

Postulation: This guy wants to leave the CAF, submits the paperwork and we do what we do best. Now he gets smashed into the spotlight and now the CAF rushes to release him (as per his request) and try and make it seem like we're kicking him to the curb.
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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #93 on: August 28, 2019, 13:19:28 »
… And in the last 10 or 15 (or 20?) years there were those 16 cases of members with ties to hate groups. Or even the 60 associated with. Is the military really afavored recruiting ground? Are they just really unsuccessful? Or really good at hiding it? ...
Semantically speaking, a "favoured recruiting ground" doesn't necessarily mean a successful one - just like someone's "favoured" fishing spot.  "We would _really_ like more people like x" =/= "We're really good at getting more people like x"

I also suspect, depending on the individuals, the value of even a few such folks making it in might be more important than their raw numbers.
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Offline MARS

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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #94 on: August 28, 2019, 13:24:11 »
And now he has apparently gone "missing", at least according to his boss at his full-time employment, who isn't being named, because... reasons

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/patrik-matthews-neo-nazi-army-reservist-missing-1.5262251
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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #95 on: August 28, 2019, 13:25:23 »
It would be more beneficial to have him tossed out 5(f) or whatever release item applies that would preclude him from re-enrolling.
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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #96 on: August 28, 2019, 13:32:17 »
Maybe 2(a)?

2 Unsatisfactory Service

a. Unsatisfactory Conduct

by reason of unsatisfactory civil conduct, or conviction of an offence by a civil court, of a serious nature not related to the performance of his duties but reflecting discredit on the Service.

Quote
However, last week, Gen. Jonathan Vance, chief of defence staff, said the military had already been talking to Mathews about some of his viewpoints.
 
"In April he had undergone the first step of administrative response to his utterances. And thereafter, as I understand it, he decided to put in his release," Vance told reporters.

Complete WAG on my part, but it is likely the paperwork was already processing and was expedited once the story broke, and the G1 folks got everything stamped and signed off.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 13:38:08 by Eye In The Sky »

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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #97 on: August 28, 2019, 13:42:55 »
And now he has apparently gone "missing", at least according to his boss at his full-time employment, who isn't being named, because... reasons

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/patrik-matthews-neo-nazi-army-reservist-missing-1.5262251

This, I found extremely interesting and potentially concerning. Hopefully, it is nothing and not him having now been spurred into action like I worry.

Devils advocate... if the charges against hin have been exaggerated for or well by the media.. maybe he is just hiding out from all of it?

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #98 on: August 28, 2019, 13:55:45 »
And...this is also important at this point:

Quote
On Monday, Beausejour RCMP in Manitoba got a missing persons report for Patrik Mathews, 26, who was last seen by family members on Saturday evening and was reported missing Monday.

"This is a missing person investigation. There is no warrant for arrest and there are no charges pending against the individual."



Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Former MCpl Patrik Mathews: accused of being a White Supremacist.
« Reply #99 on: August 28, 2019, 14:26:45 »
Semantically speaking, a "favoured recruiting ground" doesn't necessarily mean a successful one - just like someone's "favoured" fishing spot.  "We would _really_ like more people like x" =/= "We're really good at getting more people like x"

As always I am ever enlightened by your attention to detail :). You're right of course. Good point.
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