Author Topic: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018  (Read 281854 times)

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Offline Lumber

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #300 on: April 27, 2016, 13:33:40 »
Tequila.   8)

Back to boots ... because this thread (yet another boot thread) really could be merged with the "The Stuff the Army Issues is Useless" thread ...

Can I start a thread that says "The Stuff the Navy issues is... well... pretty good!
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Offline Tcm621

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #301 on: April 28, 2016, 19:03:32 »
Just to illustrate how ridiculous this whole issue is from all sides,  I overhead this (paraphrased)  conversation today at supply.

Mechanic: I need new boots the steel toe cup cuts into my toes.

Supply tech: try this wider size.

M: the boot is wider but the toe cup is the same size.

S: what do you mean?

M: see how the boot is wide here and then narrows down at the toe?

S: Well that's stupid.

M: without steel toed boots I can't work on the shop floor....

Offline BinRat55

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #302 on: April 29, 2016, 07:02:56 »
Just to illustrate how ridiculous this whole issue is from all sides,  I overhead this (paraphrased)  conversation today at supply.

Mechanic: I need new boots the steel toe cup cuts into my toes.

Supply tech: try this wider size.

M: the boot is wider but the toe cup is the same size.

S: what do you mean?

M: see how the boot is wide here and then narrows down at the toe?

S: Well that's stupid.

M: without steel toed boots I can't work on the shop floor....

I fail to see the illustration...
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #303 on: April 29, 2016, 08:17:41 »
Maintainer doesn't have boots that fit to work safely. Supply tech frustrated he can't help provide those boots.

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #304 on: April 29, 2016, 09:52:27 »
Maintainer doesn't have boots that fit to work safely. Supply tech frustrated he can't help provide those boots.

Supply Tech needs to consult the SAM and see what it says about "sizing" and what happens when members can not be properly fitted from stock-range footwear.  Section 5.5, part 2.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 09:55:12 by ArmyVern »
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Offline BinRat55

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #305 on: April 29, 2016, 10:51:56 »
If it's something like a systemic issue, a consistant failure they need to know. The problem is 4000 people have this "cup and toe" issue, 3 people actually put up a UCR. They see 3 issues and say "That's pretty darn good - we nailed it!"

You can't fix a broken wheel until you know it's broken. We need to submit UCRs, AARs... i don't know - get creative. But someone other than the Cpl supply tech who's only job is to put your feet in a tray and say 265/104 needs to know. And not just "Jeez it sucks..." but "This boot does not fit here, here and here. This is what it does when I do this, this and this..."
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #306 on: April 29, 2016, 11:11:18 »
When we return something to you folks at supply, is there anywhere in the 'system' where it is recorded 'why' I am returning it?  I have 0 knowledge on your system so...

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #307 on: April 29, 2016, 11:16:26 »
When we return something to you folks at supply, is there anywhere in the 'system' where it is recorded 'why' I am returning it?  I have 0 knowledge on your system so...

"Scrap" or "Serviceable" and that's about it.  UCR is for noting the specifics of failed/below standard kit.

Even if the system went beyond "scrap", there's not enough bods in Ottawa to sit back and analyse any of that data - they can hardly keep up with issuing contracts and re-supplying uniforms to the shelves let alone tracking stuff that should be UCRd by the members for whom the kit failed.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #308 on: April 29, 2016, 11:18:57 »
Having high arches, my solution to boots that gave me blisters on the tops of my feet, was quite simple:  I did not cross my laces over the top of my arch.  I ran the laces up the sides of the boot at my arch for those two pairs of eyelets.  Problem solved. 
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #309 on: April 29, 2016, 11:20:55 »
Binrat55, I fail to see what the number of UCR has to do with anything.

I can guarantee you that if I return a single gun, or diver's air tank, or breathing apparatus with a UCR report, the "system" takes a serious look at the item and tries to figure out why it became the object of a UCR, and if its is a systematic problem, a recall or fix will be found for all the similar items in the system.

Why should it be different for items like boots? One UCR? Fine: What is the problem -the steel cap as designed cuts into people's toes when they walk with it. Issue a recall and have boots with a redesigned steel cap issued. How hard is this?
 

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #310 on: April 29, 2016, 11:25:50 »
Roger...I was thinking along the line of for items that require a UCR, the system could track "UCR required"...so it could keep track of the # of returned items that "should" have had a UCR submitted.

Then the item manager could say "ok, so the system saw 1346 widgets returned, 57% of those were flagged "UCR required" with a total of...zero UCRs submitted".

If 'we' aren't doing our part, that part of it needs to be fixed.  I've done UCRs before, heck they aren't that difficult.

* UCR question - is it normal for UCR to be submitted by each mbr?  Is it normal, or at the very least, acceptable, to do a 'general submission' UCR on an item for a whole unit?

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #311 on: April 29, 2016, 11:27:01 »
Why should it be different for items like boots? One UCR? Fine: What is the problem -the steel cap as designed cuts into people's toes when they walk with it. Issue a recall and have boots with a redesigned steel cap issued. How hard expensive is this?

 ;D

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #312 on: April 29, 2016, 11:28:37 »
What recourse would a member have if they tried on both options for the LOTB and both boots were too narrow and hurt their feet?

Can we order special width sizes for these?
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #313 on: April 29, 2016, 11:31:35 »
Binrat55, I fail to see what the number of UCR has to do with anything.

I can guarantee you that if I return a single gun, or diver's air tank, or breathing apparatus with a UCR report, the "system" takes a serious look at the item and tries to figure out why it became the object of a UCR, and if its is a systematic problem, a recall or fix will be found for all the similar items in the system.

Why should it be different for items like boots? One UCR? Fine: What is the problem -the steel cap as designed cuts into people's toes when they walk with it. Issue a recall and have boots with a redesigned steel cap issued. How hard is this?

Actually it does because for clothing they go for the 80% solution/satisfaction.

When they only receive 2 or 3 UCRs ... the teams in Ottawa think they're doing pretty darn good n'est pas?

Also, avoid doing "mass" UCRs - such as 1 Unit submitting a UCR on "X" pairs of failed boots.  They do get looked at, but at the end of the day, it still looks like "1" UCR to those who just pull up the total listing and is mostly judged as "well, it's not an important enough issue for the troops to bother doing UCRs".

As for the steel toed cap with 1 UCR; why issue a recall?  It's one UCR for the thousands of pairs of them out there.  Is it really an issue with all the caps?  One guys non-standard feet? or a manufacturing flaw that affected just 1 pair?  A single UCR doesn't answer that all-important question.

« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 11:34:46 by ArmyVern »
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #314 on: April 29, 2016, 11:36:15 »
What recourse would a member have if they tried on both options for the LOTB and both boots were too narrow and hurt their feet?

Can we order special width sizes for these?

The reference is in this thread; you have access to the DWAN.  Pull up the SAM and read it - it's not that hard.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #315 on: April 29, 2016, 11:39:06 »
Reading it isn't that hard or addressing the issue isn't that hard?
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #316 on: April 29, 2016, 11:39:15 »
Roger...I was thinking along the line of for items that require a UCR, the system could track "UCR required"...so it could keep track of the # of returned items that "should" have had a UCR submitted.

Then the item manager could say "ok, so the system saw 1346 widgets returned, 57% of those were flagged "UCR required" with a total of...zero UCRs submitted".

If 'we' aren't doing our part, that part of it needs to be fixed.  I've done UCRs before, heck they aren't that difficult.

* UCR question - is it normal for UCR to be submitted by each mbr?  Is it normal, or at the very least, acceptable, to do a 'general submission' UCR on an item for a whole unit?

UCRs are found on the DWAN; each Unit is supposed to have a UCR co-ordinator. It is the persons for whom the kit fails who is supposed to submit the UCR on that particular kit.  They don't.

Those that do, know that their UCR is visible and trackable throughout it's processing.  I can tell the troops a million times at the front counter to do a UCR ... I can't make them do it. And, for the most part - they don't.  Hmmmmm.
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #317 on: April 29, 2016, 11:40:19 »
Reading it isn't that hard or addressing the issue isn't that hard?

You are a leader in the CAF I believe.  Look up the ref (because I've posted it in this very thread) and you'll find your answer to your question.  Then, you'll be able to impart this knowledge to your subordinates as leaders do.  How many times do you want me to do it for you?  Knowledge is power. Pass it along.

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #318 on: April 29, 2016, 11:47:27 »
UCRs are found on the DWAN; each Unit is supposed to have a UCR co-ordinator. It is the persons for whom the kit fails who is supposed to submit the UCR on that particular kit.  They don't.

Those that do, know that their UCR is visible and trackable throughout it's processing.  I can tell the troops a million times at the front counter to do a UCR ... I can't make them do it. And, for the most part - they don't.  Hmmmmm.

Roger that.  I was just curious; while deployed last year, I know there was at least 2 "unit" UCRs done up on a particular piece of kit (Air force DCBs).  I saw both of them and I know they were entered into the system, but had never seen or heard of a single UCR submitted on behalf of a 'unit' before.  I was wondering if, in hind site, it would have been better if each individual would have done a separate UCR vice the 'consolidated one' that was drafted/submitted.

Offline Old and Tired

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #319 on: April 29, 2016, 11:52:09 »
Vern, BinRat55, OldGateBoatDriver

What do we do when UCR's are submitted (in largish numbers) but multiple units; for example as a result of an EX; but they never make it to the system?  I have my own (Tinfoil Hat) guess where they went but what can we do when people figure it's better to protect their reputation or their Kingdom than actually fix the problem?

I know that I filled out to 2 UCR's at the end of November.  One each for both versions of the new LOTB. I also know that close to 50 troops on the Ex went back to non-issue boots (myself included) rather than return/exchange the LOTB they had.  SWATS, Magnums and Rocky's became the boots of choice.

From what BinRat55 says up thread there are less than 5 - 10 UCR's on the LOTB in the system.  Two of them should have my name on them describing what failed, what I was doing when they failed.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #320 on: April 29, 2016, 12:15:06 »
You are a leader in the CAF I believe.  Look up the ref (because I've posted it in this very thread) and you'll find your answer to your question.  Then, you'll be able to impart this knowledge to your subordinates as leaders do.  How many times do you want me to do it for you?  Knowledge is power. Pass it along.

I went back 8 pages and couldn't decipher the reference you're talking about. Could you narrow it down a little for me please?

Also
Quote
LOTB is avail to Clot Stores and to be issued through attrition.

Could you explain exactly how issuing these boots through attrition works?  Does that mean I can take a pair of black combat boots and exchange them for new LOTBs or would my black combat boots need to be unservicable first in order to get the new boots issued?

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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #321 on: April 29, 2016, 12:28:27 »
I went back 8 pages and couldn't decipher the reference you're talking about. Could you narrow it down a little for me please?


On this very page of this thread:

http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,29061.msg1432746.html#msg1432746
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #322 on: April 29, 2016, 12:33:07 »
Right under my nose lol thank you. 

What about boot attrition?
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #323 on: April 29, 2016, 12:35:02 »
What about boot attrition?

Your own particular RSM and CO should have been briefed on boot attrition by the respective QM, LogO, RQ, whatever by now and passed it via O Gps.  The attrition bit is out in email format from Ottawa and went to all bases; if you haven't heard anything on it yet, I'm guessing that's an internal comms problem.
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Offline Old and Tired

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Re: CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
« Reply #324 on: April 29, 2016, 12:45:12 »
Not having had an issue set of boots (except briefly the LOTB this past year) since the WWB fiasco started 1998 - 2000 time frame, what qualifies as attrition?  I still use MkIII, I gather supply will still exchange these provided their on a members Docs?
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