Author Topic: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy  (Read 821489 times)

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Offline Swampbuggy

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2775 on: July 03, 2019, 07:05:29 »
From what I understood it was essentially a list of only a few things.  RAS capability for DFO, JP5, Heavy Jackstay (for food, frozen and fresh).  VERTREP (flight deck) might have been on that list for the added transfer capability.  Everything else were add ons that Davie did on their own.  The cabins etc... were because those are the minimum standard for merchant marine.  The navy folks were wondering how they were going to get sailors off of the ASterix because the conditions were so plush, and the civilian Capt was wondering how he was going to retain civilian crew because the conditions were so primitive (no hot tub?  blasphemy!)

Would it be reasonable to assume that Davie tricked the ship out in order to make it more appealing for a potential international buyer after the lease term is up with the RCN? It’s really also a floating showcase for Davie as well as gas and groceries for the Navy, right?

Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2776 on: July 03, 2019, 08:47:28 »
Would it be reasonable to assume that Davie tricked the ship out in order to make it more appealing for a potential international buyer after the lease term is up with the RCN? It’s really also a floating showcase for Davie as well as gas and groceries for the Navy, right?

I was on the ship for an extensive tour just before it was unveiled to the public. Much was made of the accommodations with the Hudson bay blankets on the beds, the gym, wi-fi, laundry service and everything else. Much of it was over the top it seems as already mentioned. It was part of an aggressive marking campaign to sell the sister ship to the RCN and sell the ships to other countries like you said. Seeing what the PR rep for Davie is posting on other military forums, they expect the RCN to buy the ship. I can't really blame them I suppose. I also find it interesting that so far no landing craft was purchased for the ship yet, I assume the RCN looks to the ship to be only a floating gas can.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

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Online Colin P

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2777 on: July 03, 2019, 11:11:23 »
It would actually be good for Canada if people started buying our naval ship designs and if retention is a problem, having a comfortable ship is not exactly a curse.

Offline Swampbuggy

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2778 on: July 03, 2019, 11:15:48 »
I was on the ship for an extensive tour just before it was unveiled to the public. Much was made of the accommodations with the Hudson bay blankets on the beds, the gym, wi-fi, laundry service and everything else. Much of it was over the top it seems as already mentioned. It was part of an aggressive marking campaign to sell the sister ship to the RCN and sell the ships to other countries like you said. Seeing what the PR rep for Davie is posting on other military forums, they expect the RCN to buy the ship. I can't really blame them I suppose. I also find it interesting that so far no landing craft was purchased for the ship yet, I assume the RCN looks to the ship to be only a floating gas can.

It’s too bad they haven’t gotten around to the auxiliary craft for the ASTERIX. Between the landing craft and mexiflote options, I think they’re missing the boat (ha!) on a great HADR capacity. Maybe they’ll go that way when the JSS come online, if they retain ASTERIX.

Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2779 on: July 03, 2019, 11:25:26 »
It would actually be good for Canada if people started buying our naval ship designs and if retention is a problem, having a comfortable ship is not exactly a curse.

Actually the comfort piece on Asterix is becoming a problem especially when young sailors rotate back to the fleet. The Asterix wasn't never going to be an export item with cheaper options out there with greater redundancy.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

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Offline Uzlu

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2780 on: July 06, 2019, 20:50:49 »
Quote
Vancouver shipyard used one new coast guard vessel to repair, deliver another

Repairs follow collision with another vessel

A Vancouver shipyard delivered the first of the Canadian Coast Guard's three new science vessels last week by cannibalizing parts from one of the other ships for repairs, new documents show.

The repairs by Seaspan Shipyards followed the CCGS Sir John Franklin's collision with the Ogden Point breakwater near Victoria in March, which damaged its rudder and main propeller shaft.

The vessel, which will be used by federal scientists to conduct research on fish stocks, was returning from its first day of sea trials when the collision occurred and there were fears the incident would further delay its delivery.

The coast guard was to take ownership of the vessel in 2017 but that was before welding defects were discovered, forcing it back in for more work.

The three science vessels together are to cost $687 million.

Confusion after collision

Internal emails obtained by The Canadian Press through access-to-information law show senior coast guard officials scrambling for answers after the collision, whose cause still has not been revealed.

Pictures taken by a bystander and circulated by Canadian Coast Guard commissioner Jeffery Hutchinson, deputy commissioner Andy Smith and others showed a large dent in the Franklin.

A few weeks later, Smith emailed Hutchinson and Timothy Sargent, the top bureaucrat in the federal Fisheries Department, with an update that the Franklin's rudder and propeller shaft were "twisted."

The solution? Seaspan planned to use parts from the third science vessel, the CCGS John Cabot, to fix the Franklin and get it back in the water, Smith reported.

"Ship 3 will be the donor patient to get Franklin to sea in immediate term," Smith wrote. "Will have to source replacement parts for ship 3 in due course."

Seaspan Shipyards officially handed the Franklin over to the coast guard in a ceremony on June 27 that included Fisheries Minister Jonathan Wilkinson and dozens of coast guard and industry officials.

Multibillion-dollar shipbuilding plan

It is the first vessel delivered under the federal government's multibillion-dollar shipbuilding plan, which was launched in 2011.

The government has said it expects to receive the second and third so-called offshore fisheries science vessels, the CCGS Capt. Jacques Cartier and the Cabot, in late 2019 and summer 2020, respectively.

Seaspan has also been tapped to build the navy's two new support ships as well as 16 "multipurpose vessels" for the coast guard.

Construction is largely sequential, meaning a delay in the fisheries vessels could affect the rest.

Seaspan spokesman James Mitchell said the decision to use parts from the Cabot to fix the Franklin would not delay delivery of the third vessel, saying it would be handed over "as per the agreed schedule and contract requirements."

Mitchell did not say how Seaspan plans to replace the rudder and propeller shaft, but coast guard spokesman Benoit Mayrand said there were "no financial implications" for the government.

Taking existing parts from the Cabot helps explain the surprisingly quick repairs on the Franklin, said Timothy Choi, an expert on shipbuilding at the University of Calgary's Centre for Military, Security and Strategic Studies.

"One of the things that would be interesting to know would be just how damaged the original shaft and posts were," he added in an email. "Could they still be repaired?"

Either way, Choi said the rudder and propeller are often some of the last parts installed on a vessel's stern section and, because they are vulnerable to damage over a ship's lifespan, are generally easier to remove and re-install.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-shipyard-used-one-new-coast-guard-vessel-to-repair-deliver-another-1.5202786

Offline Spencer100

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2781 on: July 16, 2019, 14:00:52 »
All three get a contract.   1.5 Billion for Halifax class for 20 years

https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2019/07/16/ministers-making-announcements-at-davie-seaspan-shipyards-today-2/#.XS2OOutKiUl

Is there an election around the corner or something. 

And

Who's losing their job this time?

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2782 on: July 16, 2019, 14:08:32 »
All three get a contract ...
Couldn't resist  ;D
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Offline Spencer100

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Online Colin P

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2784 on: July 16, 2019, 14:38:12 »
All three get a contract.   1.5 Billion for Halifax class for 20 years

https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2019/07/16/ministers-making-announcements-at-davie-seaspan-shipyards-today-2/#.XS2OOutKiUl

Is there an election around the corner or something. 

And

Who's losing their job this time?

No one for a bit......

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2785 on: July 16, 2019, 15:10:43 »
More

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-ottawa-awarding-military-contract-to-davie-shipyard-weeks-before/

Can't get to it behind the paywall; from the brief assuming this is the announcement of this RFP (https://buyandsell.gc.ca/procurement-data/tender-notice/PW-FX-011-27044.  It's to spread the work for all remaining frigate refits to yards, so you don't have to go for bids each time when there are basically only the three yards in play anyway.  Not sure how they are going to ensure the rate is competitive, but given the staff work involved in putting together an RFP, that's a non trivial savings.  Lets the teams focus on running them out to end of life, which is going to be a massive effort on its own to put together the work packages and try and identify the major repairs ahead of time and get it all done within the fairly overprogrammed operational schedule.

Online Colin P

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Offline FSTO

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2787 on: July 17, 2019, 11:03:47 »
Esquimalt navy base to receive four steel barges  https://www.naval-technology.com/news/canadas-esquimalt-navy-base-to-receive-four-steel-barges/?fbclid=IwAR209l0QI6kvZDWkrHouJqe4lZ4CA1DbZEcnXKvy8mmO_qU9x9vFMPCOy2g

I'm trying to think what 6 wooden barges they are talking about.  Maybe these are for the Small Boat Floats?

I love how the Defence Minister makes this announcement. It's apparent that he has zero clue what these things are for.  :facepalm: :rofl:

Online Colin P

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2788 on: July 17, 2019, 11:19:19 »
Squeezing the fruit hard for elections

Online Colin P

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2789 on: July 17, 2019, 11:36:56 »
Interesting upgrade that could work for both the AOP's and the Kingstons as well as the Halifax's

 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/16/royal-navy-trials-new-missile-target-small-boats-wake-tensions/

Offline quadrapiper

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2790 on: July 17, 2019, 15:35:16 »
I'm trying to think what 6 wooden barges they are talking about.  Maybe these are for the Small Boat Floats?

What are these, over Colwood side?

https://www.google.ca/maps/@48.4402007,-123.4495003,155m/data=!3m1!1e3

Online Chris Pook

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2791 on: July 17, 2019, 17:08:12 »
Interesting upgrade that could work for both the AOP's and the Kingstons as well as the Halifax's

 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/16/royal-navy-trials-new-missile-target-small-boats-wake-tensions/



Can't help but think that backblast might impose some restrictions on arc.  I wonder how that RHIB in the davits forard might fare if the target were astern.  Or even how the bulkhead and gun might fare if launched directly outboard.
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2792 on: July 17, 2019, 20:31:21 »
They say they are riding a guidance laser, which presumably is linked into some kind of combat suite and radar.  Neither AOPs nor the Kingston class are intended to be anywhere with combat, so unlikely they would get some kind of CCS and radar upgrade.  Would be kind of fun to strap onto some kind of drone RHIB and have a few of those out running a screen, with the warship doing the aiming.

Online Colin P

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2793 on: July 17, 2019, 21:36:28 »
yep and we never get involved in a ground war in Central Asia either.....Historically we have always gone into a fight poorly prepared and paid for it the hard way.

I can see the AOPs for sure getting some sort of unmanned vehicle for scouting/targeting, perhaps the Kingston's as well, although at this point I would be happy to see them get the same armament as the AOP's main gun. 

Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2794 on: July 17, 2019, 22:35:13 »
yep and we never get involved in a ground war in Central Asia either.....Historically we have always gone into a fight poorly prepared and paid for it the hard way.

I can see the AOPs for sure getting some sort of unmanned vehicle for scouting/targeting, perhaps the Kingston's as well, although at this point I would be happy to see them get the same armament as the AOP's main gun.

The Kingston Class is already operating a UAV and so will AOPS.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Online Colin P

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2795 on: July 18, 2019, 01:13:08 »
I seen the tests being done, but does each ship now have trained pilots/technicians and the equipment as standard?

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2796 on: July 18, 2019, 13:32:18 »
Typically the UAVs come with a trained crew, and there may be some training for ship's company to operate with it.  The remote boats are pretty straightforward and usually a few of the crew get the training to operate them.  It's a mission fit though, so not done until it's confirmed so you don't train people that don't deploy.

Online MarkOttawa

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2797 on: July 24, 2019, 19:51:03 »
Further to this June 12 post by Uzlu:

Quote
Feds cut heavy-icebreaker order from Vancouver shipyard
https://milnet.ca/forums/index.php/topic,90990.msg1574224.html#msg1574224

and earlier late May stories:

Quote
Great Lakes-St. Lawrence Shipping: We need Icebreakers
https://www.marinelink.com/news/great-lakesst-lawrence-shipping-need-466714

No icebreakers in federal government’s $15.6B plan for new coast-guard ships
https://cfjctoday.com/2019/05/31/no-icebreakers-in-federal-governments-15-6b-plan-for-new-coast-guard-ships/

Liberal gov't now going to give more shipbuilding to Davie, not because CCG desperately needs new vessels but as porc for Quebec because, well, you know there's a federal election looming and they really need votes in the province. Ever the Canadian political way, eh?

Quote
What’s behind the Liberals’ shipbuilding strategy shift? In short: everything [except as noted long-known needs of CCG]

The Liberals are set to announce within weeks the start of a contest to allow a third shipbuilder to enter the National Shipbuilding Strategy.

Global News has learned federal officials do not plan to have an umbrella agreement in place with the winner before the election this fall, which is expected to begin around early or mid-September. But the decision to open up the multi-billion dollar program raises questions about what may have prompted it.

Documents obtained by Global News through access to information laws show just six months before announcing the plan to open up the program, officials were preparing to insist privately that no such changes were being entertained...
https://globalnews.ca/news/5654948/liberals-quebec-shipbuilding-chantier-davie/

Mark
Ottawa



Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2798 on: July 24, 2019, 20:40:22 »
The CCG needs the Polar class sooner rather than later, and the medium icebreaker conversions are just a short term fix.

What other option makes sense? Politics helps get the BGHs online, but makes sense to build both of them in the same spot.  They will likely need to do some upgrades to the yard to meet the same 'Target State' goals as the existing NSS yards, and need to finish the Polar design, do the produciton engineering and set up the supply chain.  That's a several year lag, so probably going to be an issue in the 2023 elections too.

Looks more like it will be a large sustained boom spread across the country before a bust, but at least there is a good 15 years of work coming down the pipes at the moment.

Online Colin P

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2799 on: July 24, 2019, 22:59:00 »
The medium icebreaker conversions will end up as a long term fix, because more CCG ships will die of natural causes due to old age.