CAF Security Forces [Split from RCN Anti Drone Weapon]

[daftandbarmy]

Only option is to take all those foreign students and make a Foreign Legion of security guards.

There's a precedent for that

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Hmm…a CFL, training base in Wainwright…5 years service then citizenship…

Do they have to learn both official languages too? Can I sign up?

Please try to keep up: Asian = "New whites" So you don't qualify. Your own damn fault for not staying downtrodden and getting ahead by hard work and sacrifice.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Please try to keep up: Asian = "New whites" So you don't qualify. Your own damn fault for not staying downtrodden and getting ahead by hard work and sacrifice.

Now now... don't denigrate Asians like that

Above-average educational attainment among many Asian populations​

Many Asian populations attained a bachelor’s degree or higher at rates that were well above the national average of 32.9%. Over half of the Korean, Chinese, South Asian and West Asian populations and over 40% of the Arab, Japanese and Filipino populations had a bachelor’s degree or higher (Chart 1).

In most cases, this high educational attainment was consistent across genders and generations. Among each of these seven groups, the share with a bachelor’s degree or higher was over 40% among both first- and second-generation women and men, except for first-generation (39.8%) and second-generation (29.9%) Filipino men. It was also over 40% among the third-generation-or-more Japanese and Chinese populations, though it was lower among third-generation-or-more South Asian people (26.3%).

A portrait of educational attainment and occupational outcomes among racialized populations in 2021

This Census in Brief article focuses on the education of racialized groups based on data from the 2021 Census of Population. It examines differences in educational attainment between and within racialized groups. The article also provides information on whether racialized populations found jobs...

www12.statcan.gc.ca

 

[dimsum]

Now now... don't denigrate Asians like that

Above-average educational attainment among many Asian populations​

Many Asian populations attained a bachelor’s degree or higher at rates that were well above the national average of 32.9%. Over half of the Korean, Chinese, South Asian and West Asian populations and over 40% of the Arab, Japanese and Filipino populations had a bachelor’s degree or higher (Chart 1).

In most cases, this high educational attainment was consistent across genders and generations. Among each of these seven groups, the share with a bachelor’s degree or higher was over 40% among both first- and second-generation women and men, except for first-generation (39.8%) and second-generation (29.9%) Filipino men. It was also over 40% among the third-generation-or-more Japanese and Chinese populations, though it was lower among third-generation-or-more South Asian people (26.3%).

A portrait of educational attainment and occupational outcomes among racialized populations in 2021

This Census in Brief article focuses on the education of racialized groups based on data from the 2021 Census of Population. It examines differences in educational attainment between and within racialized groups. The article also provides information on whether racialized populations found jobs...

www12.statcan.gc.ca

I’m actually surprised it’s that low.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I’m actually surprised it’s that low.

The phalanx of Tiger Moms will redouble their efforts

 

[Kirkhill]

Perrin Beatty 1987

Right then. Righter now.












Summary of Intent -

Canadian Rangers - Continue
Special Service Force - Replace
Territorial Brigades - Task and Equip Properly (Reserves)
Vital Point Guards - Create and Equip Properly (Reserves - Minimally Trained - up to 90,000 of them planned)
Northern Training Centre

I would take 2nd and 5th Brigades and remodel them on the Special Service Force structure and form them into a separate Division tasked to Joint Task Force North, along with Canadian Rangers Patrol Group 1. Allied to US 11th Abn Div.

Keep in mind that Perrin's Reserves were to be equipped with 1000 Bv206s and 200 Bison APCs.

 

[FJAG]

Summary of Intent -

Canadian Rangers - Continue
Special Service Force - Replace
Territorial Brigades - Task and Equip Properly (Reserves)
Vital Point Guards - Create and Equip Properly (Reserves - Minimally Trained - up to 90,000 of them planned)
Northern Training Centre

I would take 2nd and 5th Brigades and remodel them on the Special Service Force structure and form them into a separate Division tasked to Joint Task Force North, along with Canadian Rangers Patrol Group 1. Allied to US 11th Abn Div.

Keep in mind that Perrin's Reserves were to be equipped with 1000 Bv206s and 200 Bison APCs.

I'm about 80% on board.

 

[Kirkhill]

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/lbrr/archives/jf%201525.c74%20g43%201988-eng.pdf

A 1987 study on Vital Point protection

Good read. Little has changed.

Problems identifying what are Vital Points.
Who is responsible for protecting them.
Owners; Private Corporations; Municipal, Provincial and Federal Police; Canadian Forces (Regular and Reserve); Private security; Contract security.
What threats.
When.
Peace, Emergency, War.
Apathy.
Access to useful intelligence in Canada from federal agencies, intelligence that is readily available in the UK and the US.

Preliminary estimate base on incomplete data suggested 19,000 VP guards could be put to use for the duration of an emergency. Still looking for the reference but my recollection was that Beatty called for a force 5 times that size. The training standard would be that established by the RCMP for special or auxiliary constables - about 10 days to create a static guard.

Aerial threats were explicitly outside the realm of the 1987 study.

The same study was already discussing the threat moving past gun and bomb sabotage to computers, electronic warfare and propaganda psyops.

....

2024-1987 = 37 years of slumber.

We mashed the ignore button on the alarm and went back to sleep.

 

[Kirkhill]

US Army and US Air Force and Base Defense.

'Everybody's going to have to figure this out': Army, Air Force debate base defense amid new threats - Breaking Defense

Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall recently suggested his service could take over the task of defending its air bases from the Army, as long as adequate funding was provided.

breakingdefense.com

WASHINGTON — When President-elect Donald Trump’s new defense secretary takes the reins of the Pentagon next year, they may quickly be faced with an internal debate to settle: whether the Army should continue with its traditional role of providing defenses for air bases, or whether the Air Force steps up to the task on its own.

At the core of the issue is not only the capabilities brought to the fight by each service, but how they will be funded. The Army has traditionally been charged with defending air bases, which is part of the reason why systems like Patriot and THAAD (Terminal High Altitude Area Defense) reside under the service’s control. But tepid investment during the Global War on Terror years, alongside the proliferation of missile threats from China and Russia, has led Air Force officials to begin openly grumbling that they feel the Army can’t, or won’t, make air base defense a priority — and that a change may be due.

I'll see you Base Defence and raise you Close Air Support.

....

“People keep saying, ‘Why isn’t the Army defending our air bases?’ And the answer is, there is nowhere near enough missile defense capacity for everything we need to defend. That is true of air bases, and true of lots of other kinds of bases, it’s true in Ukraine, in Israel — it’s not just the Air Force assets that need tons more help, it’s everything,” Karako said.

....

Just did a quick take on the RRCA from their Regimental site and decided to count batteries rather than regiments.

Came up with 40 Reserve batteries and 15 Regular batteries. How many of those could be turned into Air Defence batteries?

...

 

[FJAG]

Just did a quick take on the RRCA from their Regimental site and decided to count batteries rather than regiments.

Came up with 40 Reserve batteries and 15 Regular batteries. How many of those could be turned into Air Defence batteries?

...

View attachment 89455

Canada had 5 reserve force batteries designated air defence from 1992 to 2011 and armed with S-15 Javelins (albeit they reroled to field artillery around 2005) There were quite a few more pre-1970.

The UK currently has one reserve air defence regiment - 106 (Yeomanry) Regt RA - with three batteries armed with Starstreak (essentially a Javelin replacement). Two batteries will be armoured and support manoeuvre forces and one equipped with dismounted light multiple launchers (LML)

106 RA is part of 7 AD Group, paired with 12 Regt RA and forms part of the Allied Rapid Reaction Corps.

The picture you posted is a NASAMS. I'm not aware of any country that assigns those to reserve forces. Based on the range, system components, role within an integrated system and probable maintenance requirements makes me think it would probably be a poor fit for reservists.

Canada is acquiring RBS 70 NG Manpad for Latvia under UOR which will be tasked to 4 Regt (GS) as well as a VSHORAD component under the GBAD project. IMHO, both of those are operable by reservists within a total force unit. I expect that 4 Regt (GS) will be the mounting unit for them which, IMHO, means the 5 Div reserve force arty units should be converting to supporting 4 Regt (GS) including in the AD VSHORAD and Manpad roles. That would make up to 4 batteries available (2 in NS and 2 in NB). I'd stretch it to adding 58 Battery from 6 RAC in Val Bel-Air in Quebec which was once a Javelin battery

 

[Kirkhill]

Canada had 5 reserve force batteries designated air defence from 1992 to 2011 and armed with S-15 Javelins (albeit they reroled to field artillery around 2005) There were quite a few more pre-1970.

The UK currently has one reserve air defence regiment - 106 (Yeomanry) Regt RA - with three batteries armed with Starstreak (essentially a Javelin replacement). Two batteries will be armoured and support manoeuvre forces and one equipped with dismounted light multiple launchers (LML)

106 RA is part of 7 AD Group, paired with 12 Regt RA and forms part of the Allied Rapid Reaction Corps.

The picture you posted is a NASAMS. I'm not aware of any country that assigns those to reserve forces. Based on the range, system components, role within an integrated system and probable maintenance requirements makes me think it would probably be a poor fit for reservists.

Canada is acquiring RBS 70 NG Manpad for Latvia under UOR which will be tasked to 4 Regt (GS) as well as a VSHORAD component under the GBAD project. IMHO, both of those are operable by reservists within a total force unit. I expect that 4 Regt (GS) will be the mounting unit for them which, IMHO, means the 5 Div reserve force arty units should be converting to supporting 4 Regt (GS) including in the AD VSHORAD and Manpad roles. That would make up to 4 batteries available (2 in NS and 2 in NB). I'd stretch it to adding 58 Battery from 6 RAC in Val Bel-Air in Quebec which was once a Javelin battery

The picture you posted is a NASAMS. I'm not aware of any country that assigns those to reserve forces.

Except for the US?

SAM System That Guards Washington DC Just Made Its Lowest Ever Intercept Of A Mock Cruise Missile

The National Advanced Surface to Air Missile System is critical to protecting Washington, D.C. and surrounding areas from air and missile threats.

www.twz.com

The service’s 82nd Aerial Targets Squadron managed the launch and operation of the BQM-167, while personnel from the U.S. Army’s 263rd Army Air and Missile Defense Command and 1st Battalion, 204th Air Defense Artillery manned the NASAMS. The 263rd is part of the South Carolina Army National Guard, while 1-204th is an element of the Mississippi Army National Guard.

Guard units prepped by big Army for capital air defense mission

MCGREGOR RANGE, N.M. - Two Army National Guard units will soon be using a combination of air defense systems to guard the National Capital Region and the nation's leaders.The 2nd Battalion, 174th Air

www.nationalguard.mil

....

I appreciate that the UK only has a small Air Defence capability and that that is tasked to protecting the manoeuvre elements. On the other hand the US, with a much larger Air Defence capability that extends to protecting theatres (even if only aspirationally) finds itself making comments like this.

“People keep saying, ‘Why isn’t the Army defending our air bases?’ And the answer is, there is nowhere near enough missile defense capacity for everything we need to defend. That is true of air bases, and true of lots of other kinds of bases, it’s true in Ukraine, in Israel — it’s not just the Air Force assets that need tons more help, it’s everything,” Karako said.

The threat is probably more ubiquitous now than at any time since WW2 with the difference being that in WW2 North America was relatively immune from the types of threats Europe was experiencing. I'm not sure we can safely say that about current threats. I'm pretty sure the Americans are not sure about having adequate national air defences.

...

The crew burden for the NASAMs system doesn't appear particularly onerous. 40 Batteries. Could we afford 10 batteries with 3 or 4 troops apiece? The missiles are the same ones the RCAF employs or has employed.

The AMRAAM is one of the most widely used air-to-air missiles in the world, and stockpiles of it are higher than any other comparable system. As NASAMS uses existing air-to-air missiles such as the AIM-9 Sidewinder, AMRAAM, and AMRAAM-ER, there may be thousands of older missiles in NATO's arsenal that can be fired from a NASAMS battery without change. The AIM-9X variant includes an internal cooling system, eliminating the need for launch-rail nitrogen supply required by older variants of the missile.

A report has described NASAMS as "extremely well suited to Ukraine because of the massive numbers of missiles that NATO and allies can supply, specifically for the air defence system."In particular, older AMRAAM A and B models have been replaced, making available many older missiles which could be sent to Ukraine. For example the UK government has offered to donate "[h]undreds of additional air defence missiles" including the AMRAAMs.

nasams

The National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile System, best known as NASAMS™, is a highly adaptable mid-range air defense solution.

www.rtx.com

It has also been certified with the ESSM used by the RCN

Successful demonstration of ground launched ESSM - KONGSBERG

www.kongsberg.com

NASAMS

NASAMS Norwegian Advanced Surface to Air Defense Missile System - Norway Description Technical Data Specificatio

armyrecognition.com

...

 

[Kirkhill]

Delete - Double post.

 

[FJAG]

Except for the US?

SAM System That Guards Washington DC Just Made Its Lowest Ever Intercept Of A Mock Cruise Missile

The National Advanced Surface to Air Missile System is critical to protecting Washington, D.C. and surrounding areas from air and missile threats.

www.twz.com

Careful how you interpret that.

The 263rd is not a unit. It's a formation that commands the 678 ADA Bde which commands the 1-178 FAR (a fd arty unit) and the 2-263 ADA which is an Avenger Bn. The 1-204 ADA is a separate Avenger Bn attached to the 66th Troop Command. These organizations were involved in NASAMS testing but do not themselves hold NASAMS.

The defence of air space around Washington is the responsibility of the National Capitol Regions - Integrated Air Defence Mission commanded by the Joint Air Defence Operation Center which has elements from both the ARNG and ANG attached on a rotational basis. The ground elements are Avenger ADA Bns. They do not have NASAMS. The NASAMs belong to the NCR-IAD

There are seven ARNG bns that do rotational deployments. Roughly 220 ARNG/ANG members are involved in each rotation to the NCR in support of JADOC. These rotations have been going on for some time, for example the 164 ADA Bde from Florida - which has two Avenger Bns with a total of 8 batteries did its 8th rotation in 2023. For rotations, ARNG ADA elements are federalized to full-time Active Duty. They conduct a 36-day predeployment "Massive Training Event" which culminates in live-fire certification. I'm not sure of the length of all rotations or how many bns contribute concurrently other than I know that in 2021 Battery C of the 3-265 ADA Bn return to Florida after an 8-month rotation to Washington.

To summarize. NASAMS are currently not ARNG systems. There are a total of seven ARNG ADA battalions and they are all Avenger units. These battalions have elements that are federalized for full-time rotational service in the NCR where a fixed installation system exists and they are provided with both Avenger and NASAM systems after being trained on them and live-fire certified.

That's quite different from what 106 RA does as a part-time Starstreak regiment and whose troops are trained and equipped to run their systems in the field. Canada was quite able to run Javelin systems with total force regts/btys that was Class A and a fairly robust RegF element with them. I have no doubt we could do the same with RBS 70 NGs. I don't doubt either that given a large enough RegF cadre and appropriate training we could run a NASAMS battery or two even with a majority of Class As . . . but the army won't do that because for a half billion it becomes a RegF thing and they need to protect the PYs that come with it and I expect it will deploy to Latvia and need to be manned full-time and not part-time . . . all of that means RegF and Class C.

 

[Jarnhamar]

As much as we want to see MP fired and regulated to a 1500 person US Security Force mosid that's not on the table.

Prime running COSa are a temporary US security force and a new caf trade, similar to the AOS one.