Tactical Armoured Patrol Vehicle - RG-31, LAV Coyote, and (partial) G-Wagon Replacement

[TangoTwoBravo]

With the tech level and availability of STANO/ISTAR in the world today isn't it much harder for recce elements to hide and employ stealth? Coupled with the battlefield being saturated with portable anti-armor weapons (thanks Russia and USA) wouldn't it make more sense to lean towards more heavily armored vehicles used in a recce role. With beefed up surveillance and comms packages.

We had a great discussion regarding this about ten years ago springing from an article named "Trading the Sabre for Stealth."  I think that you have a point - US commanders during Gulf War 1, for example, ended up not leading with their HMMVW-mounted scouts due to their vulnerability to all manner of enemy fire.

Regarding the TAPV itself, it could work well in a place like Mali. If a 3rd battalion ends up going somewhere like that they will suddenly want those TAPV!  I observed a wide variety of recce/patrol vehicles with the UN recently in Southern Lebanon. The Italians had a nice "truck" for patrolling, while the French had both the little VBL and some much larger wheeled AFVs.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

With the tech level and availability of STANO/ISTAR in the world today isn't it much harder for recce elements to hide and employ stealth? Coupled with the battlefield being saturated with portable anti-armor weapons (thanks Russia and USA) wouldn't it make more sense to lean towards more heavily armored vehicles used in a recce role. With beefed up surveillance and comms packages.

It is pretty hard to hide (completely) from things like airborne IR, just to name one.  Hides, FUPs, attack positions, etc stood out like 'campfires at night' to me during MR, or Ex CG on the east coast.  Not just veh's, dismtd pers are the same deal.  Your OP, LP, sentry positions...are all fair game.  Night is a 1 camera usually game (IR).  Day time, now I've got 2 more I can use.  Airborne ISR is a game changer IMO.

Can the ground be 100% covered from the air?  If you have enough platforms, crews, if the weather is excellent across the battlespace...lots of ifs.

 

[McG]

The Italians had a nice "truck" for patrolling, while the French had both the little VBL and some much larger wheeled AFVs.

Was that an Iveco product with a striking similarity to our LSVW?

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

Was that an Iveco product with a striking similarity to our LSVW?

It was an IVECO 4x4, but it was not an LSVW! I am not saying that we should go buy that one. It was, though, of a pattern similar to what we are calling the TAPV. It was very useful for patrolling in that environment.

 

[McG]

I was thinking VM90 or VM90P, but I now suspect you are talking about the LVM.  It is a decent looking truck.

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

I was thinking VM90 or VM90P, but I now suspect you are talking about the LVM.  It is a decent looking truck.

They were indeed LMVs (Light Multi-Role Vehicles) - good armoured trucks and effective at patrolling. My point here is not that we should buy these particular armoured 4x4. Rather, I am suggesting that the original intended role of the TAPV (essentially patrolling/liaison) is a relevant one. If we end up with soldiers on a blue helmet mission in Africa I imagine that the TAPVs will be quite useful.

 

[MilEME09]

Well looks like the first 6 finally arrived in gagetown.

Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Quick question; is there any kind of a air sentry or family hatch on the rear of the veh?

 

[McG]

Quick question; is there any kind of a air sentry or family hatch on the rear of the veh?

The engine fills that space.

http://www.armyrecognition.com/us_army_wheeled_and_armoured_vehicle_uk/m1117_asv_guardian_security_armoured_vehicle_personnel_carrier_data_sheet_description_information_uk.html

 

[Ludoc]

Quick question; is there any kind of a air sentry or family hatch on the rear of the veh?

The back of the vehicle is taken up by the engine. About half way back sits the rear sentry and they have a hatch.

You can see where the sentry sits in one of the pictures I have (tried to) attached. The other shows the hatch open, it is immediately behind the RWS.

 

[cupper]

How much of a problem is having the spare tire on the roof going to be?

 

[Kirkhill]

Not half as much of a problem as recovering the flat to the roof I would think.

 

[Ludoc]

How much of a problem is having the spare tire on the roof going to be?

I am very much looking forward to an exasperated Maint Sgt giving a safety brief to the Sqn the Thursday after some guy has the bright idea that standing the tire up and rolling it off the top of the vehicle would be a great time saver.

 

[RedcapCrusader]

How much of a problem is having the spare tire on the roof going to be?

Well, we all know how great the LSVW spare tire system is....

 

[Fishbone Jones]

We had a very simple and effective system on the Queen Mary to get the generator up and down. There was the arm, couple of pulleys and some rope.    No fancy course or qualification  and less time to teach. Unlike the LSVW.

 

[MilEME09]

Not half as much of a problem as recovering the flat to the roof I would think.

I foresee someone trying to fit it inside for the screw it factor, on the bright side, you have a flat, warm engine deck to sleep on

 

[George Wallace]

Well, we all know how great the LSVW spare tire system is....

Or carrying a spare on the LAV's.....Strapped to the front glaces plate or across the rear.  Even with the AVGP's there was the problem with the spare mounted, sometimes up top.  So this is not a new "Good Idea Faerie" occurrence in our AFV usage.

We had a very simple and effective system on the Queen Mary to get the generator up and down. There was the arm, couple of pulleys and some rope.    No fancy course or qualification  and less time to teach. Unlike the LSVW.

It looks like there is a system on the roof already; folded down next to the RG RWS, above the Driver.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I think that's the RWS system George....

As can be seen from this picture.....

 

[George Wallace]

I am not looking at the RWS, but at the arm that is folded down beside it, in front of tire, just back of Dvr hatch.  Seen on both those vehicles. 

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Seen I was looking in the wrong spot, I see the SWR on it now...