Author Topic: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet  (Read 71151 times)

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Offline Strike

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2012, 19:50:04 »
On a more important note, what are they going to do to rectify the problem with the manhole?

Had to chuckle at some of the comments.  One woman just couldn't BELIEVE that people would be parading with sharpened knives! Even if there was no tip to those things it would still cause some damage if one were to fall on it.

Anyway, chicks dig scars.   ;)
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Offline Hunter

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2012, 20:05:17 »
Hopefully the issue with the manhole cover will be addressed, but it has been a parade hazard for years. The problem is exacerbated by coming off the usually-Dewey lawn onto the pavement and executing a right turn on the march on parade boots with clickers. Fwiw the guardsman in question was not as badly injured as the press suggested, and he will be fine.

The funniest bayonet stabbing at CG that I ever saw was a kid from CGG who was on the drill team. During a short break in practice a bug landed on his hand and he shook it off but in doing so he slammed his hand onto buddy's bayonet. After that we nicknamed him handjob.
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Online Blackadder1916

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2012, 21:20:53 »
On a more important note, what are they going to do to rectify the problem with the manhole?

Ahh. . . . how would staffing a solution to the manhole cover go . . . now imagine some of those fancy soft fade out special effects on TV when someone's mind shifts to flights of fancy

The report of injuries and the general safety accident report are initiated.  Evidence is collected and the summary investigation is completed.  The reports are forwarded to higher formation/commnad in accordance with the normal distribution.  The recommendation that action be taken to prevent similar incidents in the future is accepted and it is proposed that the matter be studied.

After extensive study it is realized that the manhole cover is not on DND property and thus command refers the matter to NDHQ who will liaise with the appropriate agency responsible for that particular cover for rectification of the problem.  Due to the location of the cover and its connection with the sewage/drainage system, there is a delay while determining who is the actual owner.  It is unclear whether to contact the National Capital Commission, the City of Ottawa or Parliament.  After preliminary informal talks with these it is suggested that a mid-level multi-jurisdictional taskforce be formed to study the situation.  Due to the level of negotiations outside the department, it is recommended that the DND rep be at the Col/Snr Ex level.  A major, a captain and an infantry MWO (as SME on marching) are also tasked to assist in preparing the (heavily Power Pointed) departmental presentation to the taskforce.

Initial meetings of the multi-jurisdictional taskforce seem to go well, however, since there is limited Canadian documented study about the slip co-efficient between boots and manhole covers (plus additional study re variants of sole composition and attachments) it is recommended that (while waiting for DRDC Toronto to complete such studies) the taskforce view a "Changing of the Guard" in order to better understand the matter.  As, by this time, the Ceremonial Guard has ceased (since it is no longer summertime), it is suggested that the panel make a visit to London, England so that they may be able to accomplish the same goal.


. . . . . . . .    special effects fade back to normal
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2012, 21:33:08 »
Ahh. . . . how would staffing a solution to the manhole cover go . . . now imagine some of those fancy soft fade out special effects on TV when someone's mind shifts to flights of fancy

The report of injuries and the general safety accident report are initiated.  Evidence is collected and the summary investigation is completed.  The reports are forwarded to higher formation/commnad in accordance with the normal distribution.  The recommendation that action be taken to prevent similar incidents in the future is accepted and it is proposed that the matter be studied.

After extensive study it is realized that the manhole cover is not on DND property and thus command refers the matter to NDHQ who will liaise with the appropriate agency responsible for that particular cover for rectification of the problem.  Due to the location of the cover and its connection with the sewage/drainage system, there is a delay while determining who is the actual owner.  It is unclear whether to contact the National Capital Commission, the City of Ottawa or Parliament.  After preliminary informal talks with these it is suggested that a mid-level multi-jurisdictional taskforce be formed to study the situation.  Due to the level of negotiations outside the department, it is recommended that the DND rep be at the Col/Snr Ex level.  A major, a captain and an infantry MWO (as SME on marching) are also tasked to assist in preparing the (heavily Power Pointed) departmental presentation to the taskforce.

Initial meetings of the multi-jurisdictional taskforce seem to go well, however, since there is limited Canadian documented study about the slip co-efficient between boots and manhole covers (plus additional study re variants of sole composition and attachments) it is recommended that (while waiting for DRDC Toronto to complete such studies) the taskforce view a "Changing of the Guard" in order to better understand the matter.  As, by this time, the Ceremonial Guard has ceased (since it is no longer summertime), it is suggested that the panel make a visit to London, England so that they may be able to accomplish the same goal.


. . . . . . . .    special effects fade back to normal

Your timeframe is unreasonable - it assumes that anything at all would happen before 2013.

We all know government shuts down for the summer...
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Offline Robert0288

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2012, 21:36:26 »
Ahh. . . . how would staffing a solution to the manhole cover go . . . now imagine some of those fancy soft fade out special effects on TV when someone's mind shifts to flights of fancy

The report of injuries and the general safety accident report are initiated.  Evidence is collected and the summary investigation is completed.  The reports are forwarded to higher formation/commnad in accordance with the normal distribution.  The recommendation that action be taken to prevent similar incidents in the future is accepted and it is proposed that the matter be studied.

After extensive study it is realized that the manhole cover is not on DND property and thus command refers the matter to NDHQ who will liaise with the appropriate agency responsible for that particular cover for rectification of the problem.  Due to the location of the cover and its connection with the sewage/drainage system, there is a delay while determining who is the actual owner.  It is unclear whether to contact the National Capital Commission, the City of Ottawa or Parliament.  After preliminary informal talks with these it is suggested that a mid-level multi-jurisdictional taskforce be formed to study the situation.  Due to the level of negotiations outside the department, it is recommended that the DND rep be at the Col/Snr Ex level.  A major, a captain and an infantry MWO (as SME on marching) are also tasked to assist in preparing the (heavily Power Pointed) departmental presentation to the taskforce.

Initial meetings of the multi-jurisdictional taskforce seem to go well, however, since there is limited Canadian documented study about the slip co-efficient between boots and manhole covers (plus additional study re variants of sole composition and attachments) it is recommended that (while waiting for DRDC Toronto to complete such studies) the taskforce view a "Changing of the Guard" in order to better understand the matter.  As, by this time, the Ceremonial Guard has ceased (since it is no longer summertime), it is suggested that the panel make a visit to London, England so that they may be able to accomplish the same goal.


. . . . . . . .    special effects fade back to normal

I don't know how he does it.  But this guy is a fortune teller.  That or someone's solution would be to remove the offending manhole cover and/or put up large warning signs around the man hole cover warning of potential slip hazard.

Online Blackadder1916

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2012, 21:51:59 »
What makes you think that events in my scenario (other than CF98s and CF663s leaving the unit) occur anytime in this year or 2013 for that matter?  I've been "from NDHQ and here to help" and actually seen things like accident reports and MACRs that I initiated two, three or four years previously (before posting to NDHQ) and even one from before I was commissioned cross my desk for staffing.
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2012, 21:55:54 »
Meanwhile, the Sgt running RQMS - the best boss and worst PDR I've ever had - ever a practically minded man, will probably just buy some sheets of 1/32" rubber and some contact cement, have the storesmen I tasked him cut them into 2" x 2" squares, and distribute the above to PD coy to be glued to the ball of the foot on the parade boots just aft of the clicker.

That manhole cover's a real *******. I know it well. Too well.
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Offline Sythen

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2012, 22:10:59 »
Or some slightly inebriated and enterprising young soldiers, during the night, could pour maple syrup and sand over the offending cover and hope it doesn't rain.
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2012, 01:49:02 »
Or some slightly inebriated and enterprising young soldiers, during the night, could pour maple syrup and sand over the offending cover and hope it doesn't rain.

Spoken like a true public sector manager\ supervisor.
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Offline Sythen

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2012, 03:10:09 »
Spoken like a true public sector manager\ supervisor.

I don't get it.  :dunno:
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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2012, 08:02:20 »
Speedy recovery to the soldier.

As to those who would take pictures of another person's suffering, why?  So you could show your friends and get a couple more notches up on the cool factor?  Or maybe try to sell it to the papers for a few bucks?

Maybe it's an age or generation gap.  I didn't think I was THAT old though.


Someone took a picture and a newspaper, the Ottawa Citizen, published it. Now, in fairness, it is news; my daily walk often takes me to the Hill when the Ceremonial Guard* is there and I have never seen a soldier "thunder in," much less injure him/herself.

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Offline Brihard

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2012, 08:27:35 »
"Ceremonial Guard" is correct. The parade is conducted by the "public duties company" and the band.

My recollection from a few summers back is we'd average a troop thunder in two or three times a week. It seemed to more often be musicians, but sometimes riflemen too. A few years back one of the three guard commanders rather epicly passed out and went down hard during the parade.

Those manholes are a menace, but this is the first time I'm aware of someone actually being injured and not just bouncing back up to carry on.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline bridges

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2012, 08:39:12 »
I haven't seen that manhole cover for many years, and never took a good look at the time ... I wonder if they could replace it with a slip-resistant texture, like what they have on curbs at transitway stops in Ottawa, where the surface has bumps and each bump has many smaller protrusions on it.  The surface looks like a metal file or something.  I imagine that was designed to prevent slipping in boots, snow etc.  Might help with cleats too-? 

But then to enact such a thing would probably require something along the lines of what Blackadder16 envisioned.  Maybe a late-night run with 1/32" rubber and contact cement is in order - on the manhole cover, not guards' boots.
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Offline eliminator

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2012, 09:24:26 »
I didn't realize that the Ottawa citizen posted a video of the incident as well. Pretty intense to say the least.

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2012, 09:48:58 »
I didn't realize that the Ottawa citizen posted a video of the incident as well. Pretty intense to say the least.

Just watched it, fortunately you don't see the actual stab, only his reaction after. Thankfully it was only his upper arm, and hopefully he'll make a full recovery. What I assume are GD pers are there literally within seconds to help him out, good to see.

Offline Bzzliteyr

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2012, 09:54:37 »
Isn't this called an "accident"? 

I mean, unfortunate and all but if it is the one time this has happened in a long time, if ever, shouldn't we just say "crap happens" and carry on instead of planning for destruction of said manhole cover?
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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2012, 10:16:47 »
As this is a consistant problem in this location could not the manhole cover be made more traction friendly.....
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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2012, 10:22:03 »
Isn't this called an "accident"? 

I mean, unfortunate and all but if it is the one time this has happened in a long time, if ever, shouldn't we just say "crap happens" and carry on instead of planning for destruction of said manhole cover?

And maybe the next guy to slip on it stabs himself in the chest or the guy in front of him in the kidney? Why not fix a problem which seems like a relatively simple fix to PREVENT injuries? Seems like you're advocating Darwinism so we can cull the herd of the ceremonial guard.

Online GAP

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2012, 10:30:28 »
Seems like you're advocating Darwinism so we can cull the herd of the ceremonial guard.

and this is a bad thing?  :)
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Offline Bzzliteyr

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2012, 11:03:16 »
N
And maybe the next guy to slip on it stabs himself in the chest or the guy in front of him in the kidney? Why not fix a problem which seems like a relatively simple fix to PREVENT injuries? Seems like you're advocating Darwinism so we can cull the herd of the ceremonial guard.

Not quite but we tend to knee jerk react to things like this.  Society feels they need to protect their little snowflakes anytime anyone gets hurt.

It's like the story I heard about Armour crewman wanting steel toed boots back in the day.  When pushing the request higher it was noted that the number of crewman who had accidents that steel toed boots could have prevented was so little it didn't justify it.

If you take into consideration the (most likely true) story by BlackAdder, the costs of fixing this vs the costs of just telling everyone to "BE CAREFUL ON THE CORNER" will definetly be more.  Maybe we can just take the bayonets away from all of them so no one gets cut?  But then, what if a soldier trips and pokes his eye out with his C7?  Better take them away as well?

I may have brought my ideas to the table all messed up but I think you see where I am going here. 
Adsum

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Offline Dirt Digger

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2012, 13:08:09 »
Long term solution:  Google "nonslip manhole cover."  Buy result.

Short term solution:  One private, one brush, one can of black nonslip deck paint.  (One Bioscience Officer to supervise  ;D )

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Offline Haggis

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2012, 13:28:39 »
Long term solution:  Google "nonslip manhole cover."  Buy result.

Is there an engineering study on file to justify this expenditure of public funds?  Moreover, is this a proper and authorized use of government IT resources?  The correct manner to solicit bids and then purchase a non-slip manhole cover (is "manhole" even politically correct?) would be to take the aforementioned engineering study, draft a stastement of requirements and post it on MERX.

Short term solution:  One private, one brush, one can of black nonslip deck paint.  (One Bioscience Officer to supervise  ;D )

Followed by a grievance and lawsuit by OPSEU aganst the DND/CF for taking work away from unionized city/NCC employees
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2012, 13:30:01 »
Long term solution:  Google "nonslip manhole cover."  Buy result.


Get sued for not putting a tender out to various companies to allow them to bid on said manhole cover.

Come up with a set of tests the product needs to pass.

All products fail test.

Test is rewriten.

More bids, more testing.  One company finally wins.

Company takes additional 6 years to design the product and deliever it.

Long term solution indeed.
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Offline Remius

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2012, 13:33:48 »
Stabbings at CG have been going on for a while.  Mostly during practice but a few times on the hill most people think the guy fainted or he toughs it out until the end and deals with it when he gets back (Not recommended as we had one guy pass out when he got to the drill hall).  Likely it will happen again.  I can think of about 3 serious cases in 10 years not counting this one.

However the manhole cover and that particular incline coming off the hill has been a problem area for years.  Troops have taken spills there on more than one occasion.  This is not a one time thing.  In this case it had more serious results.  This is more of a case of "well it was bound to happen at some point" and it finally did and unfortunately it takes that to take action.  So if they make it safer for the troops coming off the hill then good.  I always thought it would be someone smashing the back of their head or injuring their backs but it turned out to be a bayonet.  There's no reason they can't have a safe workplace like everyone else.

The story is somewhat blown way out of proportion but whatever.  slow news week when the house is adjourned.
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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2012, 13:49:29 »
If it was a summer student that got stabbed, they might be inclined to start a lawsuit, which might actually force someone to fix the issue.