Author Topic: On Political Correctness  (Read 31568 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Eaglelord17

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 21,825
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 417
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #100 on: June 10, 2020, 10:22:31 »
I despise the whole "History is written by the Victors" idea, because it is so easy to misunderstand. I'm one of the rare sorts of historians who study not only the historical record, but the history *of* the historical record. One of the most valuable artifacts ever recovered from the earliest parts of history was certainly something which would never have been written by the "Victor." In fact, it's something that we see brought into being on a daily basis in the modern era - a complaint letter.

So to answer your question, I think that the authors of the historical record are simply those who were lucky enough to have their writings survive long enough to be discovered by future generations. There were a number of Egyptian mummies who are now world-famous simply because their enemies tried to completely destroy all memory of them. Since their tombs ended up completely forgotten, they were thus left unraided, and contained everything we would ever need to know about who those particular mummies were.

In all honesty, the biggest problem I have with the idea of history being written by the victors is the simple reality that the writing of history is a continuum. It is a never ceasing endeavour. It is a deeply evidence-based science, which basically means that if the Victor's history distorts the details sufficiently, then all credibility the Victor may attempt to claim will be lost as time progresses. Hence, my original point still stands. Altering the historical record is simply not possible without mass murder.

So which historical record are you targeting, the recreated record of thousands of years ago? Or the more recent still having a effect on the modern era record? Right now it is the more recent still written by the victor records which are generally being challenged. That is not to say the challenger is necessary correct either (and most the time pushing their completely biased view doesn't help much either), just that there is some merit into looking at things from multiple perspectives.

Offline Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 279,390
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,442
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #101 on: June 10, 2020, 10:28:14 »
And we are near that now.

...and typically several decades late, to boot! ;D

Offline Xylric

  • Member
  • ****
  • 7,855
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 214
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #102 on: June 10, 2020, 10:31:07 »
So which historical record are you targeting, the recreated record of thousands of years ago? Or the more recent still having a effect on the modern era record? Right now it is the more recent still written by the victor records which are generally being challenged. That is not to say the challenger is necessary correct either (and most the time pushing their completely biased view doesn't help much either), just that there is some merit into looking at things from multiple perspectives.

You do not understand. The point is, because the records written by "victors" get challenged as time progresses, one really cannot say that it is an unshakable truth. By all means let biased history be published, the historical record is not the written histories, it is the entire body of physical evidence.

Online Brad Sallows

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 108,865
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,598
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #103 on: June 10, 2020, 13:09:41 »
Better to have history written by the victors than none at all.  The interpretation is not immutable, but we can't interpret a blank page.
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

"It is a damned heavy blow; but whining don't help."

Despair is a sin.

Offline Xylric

  • Member
  • ****
  • 7,855
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 214
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #104 on: June 10, 2020, 13:28:10 »
Better to have history written by the victors than none at all.  The interpretation is not immutable, but we can't interpret a blank page.

Even without the Victors putting down their version of events, there are ways to interpret blank pages - because the page exists, and surrounding details can give clues as to why a particular page exists. My problem is with the fact that altering written history, or even just changing how history is taught, can have cumulative effects, and can collapse entire societies.

Online FJAG

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 314,785
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,803
  • Ex Gladio Justicia
    • Google Sites Wolf Riedel
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #105 on: June 10, 2020, 15:45:47 »
You do not understand. The point is, because the records written by "victors" get challenged as time progresses, one really cannot say that it is an unshakable truth. By all means let biased history be published, the historical record is not the written histories, it is the entire body of physical evidence.

I agree with you on that but have some hesitation about the "let biased history be published". For a starter I don't know how one could even stop it but my problem with it is that all too often that "biased" history becomes "indisputable fact".

Two examples, one current one not so much.

Much of what we believe about the Battle of Waterloo comes not from the actual victor, Wellington, because he refused to write it. It comes from the research done by one Captain Siborne who was commissioned to build a model of the battle and who also wrote two books on the subject. The problem was that Siborne was short of money and frequently took donations and ended up embellishing his benefactors' roles here and there. Siborne greatly downplayed the role of the Dutch, Hanovarians, Brunswickers and Nasau (who with the King's German Legion made up 2/3rds of Wellington's contingent) while playing up the British. I would expect that as a result your average Brit has little or no knowledge of their participation other than the story of a bumbling cowardly Prince of Orange as a staff officer. Those yarns persist as recently as Cornwell's Sharpe's novel and history of the battle that he wrote.

More relevant is the Confederate monument issue and the army base names issue which is not so much the winners writing history but the losers rewriting theirs.

The rush to build Confederate war monuments did not follow the Civil War, but came during the period 1890 to 1920 when there was a strong resurgence of overt anti-Negro racism in the South in hand with the formation of the Jim Crow laws, followed shortly thereafter by a resurgence of the Klu Klux Klan as a major force within the country. In effect it was the zenith of the South restructuring itself as a white supremacist society.

Similarly the US Army started naming bases for former Confederate commanders, putatively as an act of reconciliation but all of these were formed and named either towards the end of WW1 or the beginning of WW2 when racial inequality and the cult of the noble "Lost Cause" and Southern Chivalry were in full swing. The naming of these bases (all of which are in Southern states) probably had more to do with placating the local communities and their leaders at the time than real reconciliation.

You're definitely right about history being all of the physical evidence, but one needs to constantly guard against false narratives regardless of the evidence because back then (and even more so, now) much of the evidence was often a fabrication. One rarely finds such meticulous self-incriminating evidence as the Nazis left behind; more often it is self-serving CYA paperwork.

 :cheers:

Edited to correct spell check's change from putatively to punitively  :facepalm:
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 16:41:19 by FJAG »
Illegitimi non carborundum
Semper debeatis percutis ictu primo
Access my "Allies" and "Mark Winters, CID" book series at:
https://sites.google.com/view/wolfriedel
Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/WolfRiedelAuthor/

Offline daftandbarmy

  • Army.ca Myth
  • *****
  • 329,275
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 16,596
  • The Older I Get, The Better I Was
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #106 on: June 10, 2020, 15:50:37 »
I agree with you on that but have some hesitation about the "let biased history be published". For a starter I don't know how one could even stop it but my problem with it is that all too often that "biased" history becomes "indisputable fact".

Two examples, one current one not so much.

Much of what we believe about the Battle of Waterloo comes not from the actual victor, Wellington, because he refused to write it. It comes from the research done by one Captain Siborne who was commissioned to build a model of the battle and who also wrote two books on the subject. The problem was that Siborne was short of money and frequently took donations and ended up embellishing his benefactors' roles here and there. Siborne greatly downplayed the role of the Dutch, Hanovarians, Brunswickers and Nasau (who with the King's German Legion made up 2/3rds of Wellington's contingent) while playing up the British. I would expect that as a result your average Brit has little or no knowledge of their participation other than the story of a bumbling cowardly Prince of Orange as a staff officer. Those yarns persist as recently as Cornwell's Sharpe's novel and history of the battle that he wrote.

More relevant is the Confederate monument issue and the army base names issue which is not so much the winners writing history but the losers rewriting theirs.

The rush to build Confederate war monuments did not follow the Civil War, but came during the period 1890 to 1920 when there was a strong resurgence of overt anti-Negro racism in the South in hand with the formation of the Jim Crow laws, followed shortly thereafter by a resurgence of the Klu Klux Klan as a major force within the country. In effect it was the zenith of the South restructuring itself as a white supremacist society.

Similarly the US Army started naming bases for former Confederate commanders, punitively as an act of reconciliation but all of these were formed and named either towards the end of WW1 or the beginning of WW2 when racial inequality and the cult of the noble "Lost Cause" and Southern Chivalry were in full swing. The naming of these bases (all of which are in Southern states) probably had more to do with placating the local communities and their leaders at the time than real reconciliation.

You're definitely right about history being all of the physical evidence, but one needs to constantly guard against false narratives regardless of the evidence because back then (and even more so, now) much of the evidence was often a fabrication. One rarely finds such meticulous self-incriminating evidence as the Nazis left behind; more often it is self-serving CYA paperwork.

 :cheers:

And Gawd forbid anyone start on what actually happened during the War of 1812 :)
"Now listen to me you benighted muckers. We're going to teach you soldiering. The world's noblest profession. When we're done with you, you'll be able to slaughter your enemies like civilized men." Daniel Dravot

Online FJAG

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 314,785
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,803
  • Ex Gladio Justicia
    • Google Sites Wolf Riedel
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #107 on: June 10, 2020, 16:43:19 »
And Gawd forbid anyone start on what actually happened during the War of 1812 :)

That's the one entirely fought at New Orleans, right?

 :cdnsalute:
Illegitimi non carborundum
Semper debeatis percutis ictu primo
Access my "Allies" and "Mark Winters, CID" book series at:
https://sites.google.com/view/wolfriedel
Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/WolfRiedelAuthor/

Offline Xylric

  • Member
  • ****
  • 7,855
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 214
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #108 on: June 10, 2020, 17:16:55 »
I agree with you on that but have some hesitation about the "let biased history be published". For a starter I don't know how one could even stop it but my problem with it is that all too often that "biased" history becomes "indisputable fact".

Two examples, one current one not so much.

Much of what we believe about the Battle of Waterloo comes not from the actual victor, Wellington, because he refused to write it. It comes from the research done by one Captain Siborne who was commissioned to build a model of the battle and who also wrote two books on the subject. The problem was that Siborne was short of money and frequently took donations and ended up embellishing his benefactors' roles here and there. Siborne greatly downplayed the role of the Dutch, Hanovarians, Brunswickers and Nasau (who with the King's German Legion made up 2/3rds of Wellington's contingent) while playing up the British. I would expect that as a result your average Brit has little or no knowledge of their participation other than the story of a bumbling cowardly Prince of Orange as a staff officer. Those yarns persist as recently as Cornwell's Sharpe's novel and history of the battle that he wrote.

More relevant is the Confederate monument issue and the army base names issue which is not so much the winners writing history but the losers rewriting theirs.

The rush to build Confederate war monuments did not follow the Civil War, but came during the period 1890 to 1920 when there was a strong resurgence of overt anti-Negro racism in the South in hand with the formation of the Jim Crow laws, followed shortly thereafter by a resurgence of the Klu Klux Klan as a major force within the country. In effect it was the zenith of the South restructuring itself as a white supremacist society.

Similarly the US Army started naming bases for former Confederate commanders, punitively as an act of reconciliation but all of these were formed and named either towards the end of WW1 or the beginning of WW2 when racial inequality and the cult of the noble "Lost Cause" and Southern Chivalry were in full swing. The naming of these bases (all of which are in Southern states) probably had more to do with placating the local communities and their leaders at the time than real reconciliation.

You're definitely right about history being all of the physical evidence, but one needs to constantly guard against false narratives regardless of the evidence because back then (and even more so, now) much of the evidence was often a fabrication. One rarely finds such meticulous self-incriminating evidence as the Nazis left behind; more often it is self-serving CYA paperwork.

 :cheers:

Indeed, I do hesitate when it comes to biased history getting published, but I mean that such biased history writings would still need to be published under the same standards by which all other publications are produced. I view allowing bad history (and other bad scholarship) to get published as a better system than the alternative, because the alternative is largely unfathomable in a free and democratic society. It is going to exist regardless, so trying to prevent its publication is just going to give its supporters fuel for their positions. Forcing bad and biased history to be bound by the same standards would neatly eliminate a significant percentage of the works from any serious audience, and go a long way to making it a self-solving problem.

Or in other words, while it is quite obvious that some books should never have been written, the only way that "biased" history becomes "indisputable fact" is if it is never challenged, and if it is never published, it can never *be* challenged. If you can't question something, you can't challenge those who believe it to be true. When you allow for biased history to get published, if the education system is up to snuff, you essentially force the evidence itself to be the judge, which is how it should be for all sciences. The problem is that evidence itself can and should be challenged. If it does not fit the current model, then it is the duty of the person presenting it to demonstrate how and why the model should be changed to account for it. And obviously, it goes without saying that some "evidence" is so outlandish that it can be dismissed outright - a certain defamation trial which directly presented the meticulous Nazi documentation to the world gives a perfect example. Irving's credibility, to be specific. The moment Irving filed that libel suit, he destroyed himself.

One of my absolute favourite works of Alternate History is the novel Fatherland, specifically because the meticulous self-incriminating evidence is the major plot point of the novel (and the author used the *actual* documents for that purpose). I learned more about Nazi genocidal intentions from a work of fiction than I did in all of high school! I agree with the foundations of your hesistance, and simply think it is better for me to elaborate why I think bad and biased history is something of a necessary evil to the field.

The only way to constantly guard against false narratives (especially those where there is minimal evidence) is to ask as many questions as possible. By never allowing yourself to hear things you disagree with, you never allow yourself to actually think.

Online mariomike

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 576,390
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,061
  • Keep 'em rolling.
    • The job.
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #109 on: June 10, 2020, 17:39:27 »
The rush to build Confederate war monuments did not follow the Civil War, but came during the period 1890 to 1920 when there was a strong resurgence of overt anti-Negro racism in the South in hand with the formation of the Jim Crow laws, followed shortly thereafter by a resurgence of the Klu Klux Klan as a major force within the country. In effect it was the zenith of the South restructuring itself as a white supremacist society.

As of today, can't even wave Confederate flags at NASCAR anymore.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/10/nascar-bans-confederate-flag-at-all-events-and-properties.html
In any war, there are two tremendous tasks. That of the combat troops is to fight the enemy. That of the supply troops is to furnish all the material to insure victory. The faster and farther the combat troops advance against the foe, the greater becomes the battle of supply. EISENHOWER

Online FJAG

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 314,785
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,803
  • Ex Gladio Justicia
    • Google Sites Wolf Riedel
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #110 on: June 10, 2020, 17:42:09 »
...
The only way to constantly guard against false narratives (especially those where there is minimal evidence) is to ask as many questions as possible. By never allowing yourself to hear things you disagree with, you never allow yourself to actually think.

I'm not questioning your premise in any way. We're perfectly of the same mind.

What I'm bemoaning is the fact that there is such a large part of the population out there that is so uneducated and so unquestioning that they grab onto and vigorously defend "truths" that are clearly and demonstrably false.

On top of that there is now so much more demonstrably false information being fed to a gullible public.

Mix that with an intolerance or outrage for anything that doesn't jive with your "truth" and we're becoming less and less a civil society.

 :brickwall:
Illegitimi non carborundum
Semper debeatis percutis ictu primo
Access my "Allies" and "Mark Winters, CID" book series at:
https://sites.google.com/view/wolfriedel
Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/WolfRiedelAuthor/

Offline ModlrMike

    : Riding time again... woohooo!

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 230,694
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,078
    • Canadian Association of Physician Assistants
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #111 on: June 10, 2020, 17:47:50 »

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."

F. Scott Fitzgerald

I used that today in conversation with someone over politics. I thought his head was going to explode. He couldn't understand how one could vow to uphold a law that one disagreed with on a philosophical level.
WARNING: The consumption of alcohol may create the illusion that you are tougher,smarter, faster and better looking than most people.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. (H.L. Mencken 1919)
Zero tolerance is the politics of the lazy. All it requires is that you do nothing and ban everything.

Online FJAG

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 314,785
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,803
  • Ex Gladio Justicia
    • Google Sites Wolf Riedel
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #112 on: June 10, 2020, 17:51:04 »
I used that today in conversation with someone over politics. I thought his head was going to explode. He couldn't understand how one could vow to uphold a law that one disagreed with on a philosophical level.

Obviously not one with a first-rate intelligence as per FSF's standard.

 ;D
Illegitimi non carborundum
Semper debeatis percutis ictu primo
Access my "Allies" and "Mark Winters, CID" book series at:
https://sites.google.com/view/wolfriedel
Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/WolfRiedelAuthor/

Offline Xylric

  • Member
  • ****
  • 7,855
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 214
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #113 on: June 10, 2020, 18:11:30 »
I'm not questioning your premise in any way. We're perfectly of the same mind.

What I'm bemoaning is the fact that there is such a large part of the population out there that is so uneducated and so unquestioning that they grab onto and vigorously defend "truths" that are clearly and demonstrably false.

On top of that there is now so much more demonstrably false information being fed to a gullible public.

Mix that with an intolerance or outrage for anything that doesn't jive with your "truth" and we're becoming less and less a civil society.

 :brickwall:

Yes. I wrote the following short story last year, and as I look on the events that are going on in the world right now, I have to smile at the brutally effective point that I didn't realize I was making with it:

Do No Harm

There are some things that are, for lack of a better way of putting it, so far outside of one's realm of comprehension that it can completely break a person's understanding of reality when forced to face them. The point that this story makes is one that I learned very early on from my grandfather - kindness is unfathomly ruthless.

How it relates to this conversation is a little harder to describe, but ties in to my academic background. While my degree is a Bachelor of Religious Education, with a focus on the History and Anthropology of Religion, I also studied at Sheridan College for a 3 year diploma in Business Administration with a focus on Marketing. I originally joked that since my degree deals with the formation and propogation of beliefs, adding the Marketing meant that I have the equivalent of a degree in Propaganda (I really, really wish I never made that joke now). The fact that people believe lies so easily does not remotely absolve people of the responsibility to uphold higher priorities.

I know it's a trope, but I am firmly convinced of a devestatingly cynical truth: Civilization itself is a polite fiction.

Online FJAG

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 314,785
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,803
  • Ex Gladio Justicia
    • Google Sites Wolf Riedel
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #114 on: June 10, 2020, 23:32:37 »
Aaaand ... Trump leans in on the base name issue:

Quote
Trump opposes efforts to remove Confederate commanders' names from military bases

By Nikki Carvajal

Updated 7:07 PM ET, Wed June 10, 2020

(CNN)President Donald Trump said Wednesday he opposes any effort by the US military to rename the nearly one dozen major bases and installations that bear the names of Confederate military commanders.

US Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy and Defense Secretary Mark Esper are said to be open to holding a "bipartisan conversation" about renaming nearly a dozen major bases and installations that bear the names of Confederate military commanders, according to an Army official.

But Trump tweeted: "These Monumental and very Powerful Bases have become part of a Great American Heritage, and a... ....history of Winning, Victory, and Freedom. The United States of America trained and deployed our HEROES on these Hallowed Grounds, and won two World Wars. Therefore, my Administration will not even consider the renaming of these Magnificent and Fabled Military Installations."
...

See whole article here:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/10/politics/donald-trump-army-bases-renaming/index.html

:pop:
Illegitimi non carborundum
Semper debeatis percutis ictu primo
Access my "Allies" and "Mark Winters, CID" book series at:
https://sites.google.com/view/wolfriedel
Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/WolfRiedelAuthor/

Online mariomike

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 576,390
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,061
  • Keep 'em rolling.
    • The job.
In any war, there are two tremendous tasks. That of the combat troops is to fight the enemy. That of the supply troops is to furnish all the material to insure victory. The faster and farther the combat troops advance against the foe, the greater becomes the battle of supply. EISENHOWER

Offline daftandbarmy

  • Army.ca Myth
  • *****
  • 329,275
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 16,596
  • The Older I Get, The Better I Was
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #116 on: June 10, 2020, 23:42:55 »
Good one....

Rethinking Political Correctness

A white manager fears she will be perceived as racist if she gives critical feedback to her Latino subordinate. A black engineer passed over for promotion wonders whether his race has anything to do with it, but he’s reluctant to raise this concern lest he be seen as “playing the race card.” A woman associate who wants to make partner in an accounting firm resists seeking coaching on her leadership style; she worries that doing so would confirm the notion that women don’t have what it takes to make partner.

These types of events occur daily in politically correct (PC) cultures, where unspoken canons of propriety govern behavior in cross-cultural interactions—that is, interactions among people of different races, genders, religions, and other potentially charged social identity groups. We embrace the commitment to equity that underlies political correctness, and we applaud the shifts in norms wrought by that commitment. We are troubled, however, by the barriers that political correctness can pose to developing constructive, engaged relationships at work. In cultures regulated by political correctness, people feel judged and fear being blamed. They worry about how others view them as representatives of their social identity groups. They feel inhibited and afraid to address even the most banal issues directly. People draw private conclusions; untested, their conclusions become immutable. Resentments build, relationships fray, and performance suffers.

Legal and cultural changes over the past 40 years ushered unprecedented numbers of women and people of color into companies’ professional and managerial ranks. Overt prejudice and discrimination in the workplace, historically sanctioned by society, are far less acceptable today. Laws now protect traditionally underrepresented groups from blatant discrimination in hiring and promotion, and political correctness has reset the standards for civility and respect in people’s day-to-day interactions.

Despite this obvious progress, we believe that political correctness is a double-edged sword. While it has helped many traditionally underrepresented employees to experience their workplace as more inclusive, the PC rule book can hinder employees’ ability to develop effective relationships across potentially divisive group differences. Companies need to equip workers with skills—not rules—for building these relationships.

Our work suggests that high-quality relationships cannot be mandated. Sensitivity training and zero-tolerance policies at best impart some useful cultural knowledge or indicate that a company is serious about eliminating bias. At worst, such practices undermine relationships by reinforcing a restrictive and fearful atmosphere. Those to whom corrective actions are directed—men and whites, for example—walk on eggshells for fear of unwittingly transgressing the rules of political correctness.

We have found that political correctness does not only pose problems for those in the “majority.” When majority members cannot speak candidly, members of under-represented groups also suffer: “Minorities” can’t discuss their concerns about fairness and fears about feeding into negative stereotypes, and that adds to an atmosphere in which people tiptoe around the issues and one another. These dynamics breed misunderstanding, conflict, and mistrust, corroding both managerial and team effectiveness.

Constructive engagement of differences—and, therefore, effective leadership in culturally diverse contexts—requires majority and minority individuals to develop a mind-set and skills that all parties currently lack. This article proposes how managers and employees can engage with one another to reap the benefits cultural diversity has to offer. It represents our collective insights from research, teaching, and consulting over the past 15 years in the areas of race and gender relations, diversity, and organizational change. It also incorporates findings from our research with Learning as Leadership, a San Rafael, California–based leadership development organization, in whose seminars we have observed dozens of managers and executives grappling with unproductive behavior patterns and experimenting with new ones. Applying our insights about these processes to classic diversity-related dilemmas, we have developed the following principles to guide people seeking a healthy approach to the tensions that commonly arise over difference:
•Pause to short-circuit the emotion and reflect.
•Connect with others in ways that affirm the importance of relationships.
•Question yourself to help identify your blind spots and discover what makes you defensive.
•Get genuine support that doesn’t necessarily validate your point of view but, rather, helps you gain a broader perspective.
•Shift your mind-set from “You need to change” to “What can I change?”

These five principles require that all parties adopt a learning orientation in cross-cultural interactions. In this article, we spell out the challenges—and opportunities—of adopting such an orientation and offer some guidelines for leaders. First, though, let’s explore the negative dynamics that result when open discussion is repressed and people fail to learn.


https://hbr.org/2006/09/rethinking-political-correctness
"Now listen to me you benighted muckers. We're going to teach you soldiering. The world's noblest profession. When we're done with you, you'll be able to slaughter your enemies like civilized men." Daniel Dravot

Online mariomike

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 576,390
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,061
  • Keep 'em rolling.
    • The job.
In any war, there are two tremendous tasks. That of the combat troops is to fight the enemy. That of the supply troops is to furnish all the material to insure victory. The faster and farther the combat troops advance against the foe, the greater becomes the battle of supply. EISENHOWER

Offline Xylric

  • Member
  • ****
  • 7,855
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 214
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #118 on: June 11, 2020, 02:17:33 »
Police no longer welcome in Vancouver Pride Parade
https://www.google.com/search?q=vancouver+pride+law+enforcement&sxsrf=ALeKk02E0TwRMAKFld4noOckHlQNkIF5-Q:1591852920172&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:w&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjMs92egvnpAhVTonIEHbF0AEAQpwV6BAgLEBw&biw=1280&bih=641#spf=1591853080675

Pretty sure that by the end of the month, there will be dozens more Pride celebrations where they are no longer welcome. Gotta feel for the police that are members of that particular community.

Online Colin P

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 183,870
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,693
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #119 on: June 11, 2020, 03:25:07 »
Police no longer welcome in Vancouver Pride Parade
https://www.google.com/search?q=vancouver+pride+law+enforcement&sxsrf=ALeKk02E0TwRMAKFld4noOckHlQNkIF5-Q:1591852920172&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:w&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjMs92egvnpAhVTonIEHbF0AEAQpwV6BAgLEBw&biw=1280&bih=641#spf=1591853080675

No good deed goes unpunished, the VPD went to great lengths to build bridges with the gay community here and what do they get for it? Pretty soon people are going to figure out that they can do no right and then they won't bother to try anymore and then those groups will wonder why the services and public have disdain for them.

Offline Infanteer

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 209,245
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 15,752
  • Honey Badger FTW!
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #120 on: June 11, 2020, 06:03:03 »
Good way to promote inclusion and spread your message.... :waiting:
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Online Hamish Seggie

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 253,612
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,187
  • This is my son Michael, KIA Afghanistan 3 Sep 08
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #121 on: June 11, 2020, 08:07:41 »
No good deed goes unpunished, the VPD went to great lengths to build bridges with the gay community here and what do they get for it? Pretty soon people are going to figure out that they can do no right and then they won't bother to try anymore and then those groups will wonder why the services and public have disdain for them.


Its unfortunate that the police cannot choose who they can protect. No doubt the gay community will want police to vigorously pursue those who get in the way, obstruct or counter demonstrate their parade.
Freedom Isn't Free   "Never Shall I Fail My Brothers"

“Do everything that is necessary and nothing that is not".

Offline daftandbarmy

  • Army.ca Myth
  • *****
  • 329,275
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 16,596
  • The Older I Get, The Better I Was
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #122 on: June 11, 2020, 09:51:47 »

Its unfortunate that the police cannot choose who they can protect. No doubt the gay community will want police to vigorously pursue those who get in the way, obstruct or counter demonstrate their parade.

Believe me, in Vancouver, there aren't too many demonstrators against gay pride parades. If anything, people trip over themselves to join up mainly because that demographic are such big spenders, and a pretty influential political voice.

Gay cops will likely still attend, but probably out of uniform (see what I did there?: ) )
"Now listen to me you benighted muckers. We're going to teach you soldiering. The world's noblest profession. When we're done with you, you'll be able to slaughter your enemies like civilized men." Daniel Dravot

Offline Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 279,390
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,442
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #123 on: June 11, 2020, 10:18:36 »
It’s a stupid decision.  Unless the VPD has a history of mistreating the gay community, which I don’t believe they have, this is presumptively judging the VPD as hostile to, or counter to the Vancouver gay community’s cause.

Offline daftandbarmy

  • Army.ca Myth
  • *****
  • 329,275
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 16,596
  • The Older I Get, The Better I Was
Re: On Political Correctness
« Reply #124 on: June 11, 2020, 10:40:51 »
It’s a stupid decision.  Unless the VPD has a history of mistreating the gay community, which I don’t believe they have, this is presumptively judging the VPD as hostile to, or counter to the Vancouver gay community’s cause.

Gay cops are reporting that this decision will limit their ability to change culture within the police to become more tolerant of gay staff and citizens.
"Now listen to me you benighted muckers. We're going to teach you soldiering. The world's noblest profession. When we're done with you, you'll be able to slaughter your enemies like civilized men." Daniel Dravot