Author Topic: Editorial Opinion  (Read 6942 times)

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2018, 10:49:13 »
I occasionally switch over to CNN to have my interpretation of the news be challenged.
Always an education to see how an event comes out after going through the CNN filter.  ;)

Yes; it's amazing what news looks like when they use actual facts!   :pop:


Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2018, 10:57:28 »
Yes; it's amazing what news looks like when they use actual facts!   :pop:

Oh yes. CNN is the epitome of factual news reporting. ::) and Jim Acosta is their Walter Cronkite. :rofl:
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2018, 11:15:39 »
I occasionally switch over to Fox News to have my interpretation of the news be challenged.
Always an education to see how an event comes out after going through the Fox filter.  ;)

He says the others are "Fake News",

"So they caught Fake News CNN cold, but what about NBC, CBS & ABC? What about the failing @nytimes & @washingtonpost? They are all Fake News!"
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/879682547235651584?lang=en

"The FAKE NEWS media (failing @nytimes, @NBCNews, @ABC, @CBS, @CNN) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!"
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/832708293516632065?lang=en
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 11:26:28 by mariomike »

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2018, 11:56:31 »
I occasionally switch over to CNN to have my interpretation of the news be challenged.
Always an education to see how an event comes out after going through the CNN filter.  ;)

Crazy talk!  Two people amongst billions on the planet having differing views?

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2018, 12:22:11 »
Crazy talk!  Two people amongst billions on the planet having differing views?

Here's a good and cheerful quote for military people:

“everything is ridiculous if one thinks of death”

― Thomas Bernhard

:)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2018, 12:55:36 »
I occasionally switch over to Fox News to have my interpretation of the news be challenged.
Always an education to see how an event comes out after going through the Fox filter.  ;)

I occasionally switch over to CNN to have my interpretation of the news be challenged.
Always an education to see how an event comes out after going through the CNN filter.  ;)

Both are below the "overall quality" line of the chart presented in the link I put up, so neither is really worth the time.  Too much effort to wade through the infotainment to get to the actual news.  One doesn't even need to look at the chart to realize this, as CNN and FOX websites now look like the front page of a National Enquirer that's sitting in the grocery store.
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2018, 13:27:18 »
Both are below the "overall quality" line of the chart presented in the link I put up, so neither is really worth the time.  Too much effort to wade through the infotainment to get to the actual news.  One doesn't even need to look at the chart to realize this, as CNN and FOX websites now look like the front page of a National Enquirer that's sitting in the grocery store.

The accuracy of the chart has been called into question though. So that's no indicator either. I'm not in complete disagreement. All outlets show some bias, that I can live with as we always have, but it's become much more vocal and nasty though. If they attacked both sides equally, maybe. However, many of them have gone completely off one side or the other. I find watching the press briefings for accuracy of reporting a decent indicator. You can tell there's journalists' there that are serious with their questions and polite in their interactions. Then there's the usual suspects that yell questions out of turn, argue with the messenger, won't follow direction hogging someone else's time. and make things especially difficult for the true news outlets to get their story. I find if they are assholes and idiots in there, their outlets are the same boorish idiots that do the same in print or media. I just want accurate statement of facts. I don't care who provides them.
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2018, 13:57:28 »
Both are below the "overall quality" line of the chart presented in the link I put up, so neither is really worth the time

http://www.adfontesmedia.com/media-bias-chart-3-1-minor-updates-based-constructive-feedback/

Using the "Lesser of two evils principle" - for the effect they may have on viewers of either one, or both - it's interesting to compare the two in the link you put up,

« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 14:00:03 by mariomike »

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2018, 14:04:58 »
The accuracy of the chart has been called into question though. So that's no indicator either. I'm not in complete disagreement. All outlets show some bias, that I can live with as we always have, but it's become much more vocal and nasty though.

Don't discard the value of the chart off-hand just because you're not sure of the methodology.  As I said, its a tool - use it and verify it.  In the case of my comments, its quite easy to do.  It's not the news bias that I care about, its the quality.  As Edward indicated, bias is present in everyone and every organization, and its possible for agencies with a bias to present quality news.  I don't care what CNN or FOX's bias is.  However, the quality of their journalism has reached a fever pitch.  I just cruised to FOX to see their front page.  "Brennan 'Did Damage', "Brennan is one of the Biggest Frauds in the History of America: Giuliani" and "Special ops shoot down Brennan and his defenders: 'You put your politics before us.'"  Checked CNN as well.  "The President's Red Scare," "Michael Hayden says he, too, would be honored if Trump revoked his security clearance," and "Rudy Giuliani: Truth isn't truth."

Now, I went to BBCs front page.  "Mueller inquiry: White House lawyer McGahn co-operating with probe," "Kerala floods: Rescue efforts step up as rains begin to ease," and "Cyprus extradites EgyptAir hijacker."  The difference between the infotainment and the news is quite easy to see.  The chart is accurate in where it puts CNN, FOX, and the BBC.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 14:15:13 by Infanteer »
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2018, 17:13:41 »
My personal "go to" is Instapundit, since it chooses to post articles from across the political spectrum, as well as from a multitude of different nations. Reading about the same subject from Haaretz, The Guardian, USA Today and the Washington Post (for example) provides that wide angle view people should cultivate.

Now like everything else, this is not a 100% solution. Being an American blog, it is often difficult to find new about Canada, and of course many news items are simply not covered by all sources. Glenn Reynolds and his band of pirates also have their own biases as well.

A "Canadapundit" all source news blog would be an interesting and useful addition to the blogosphere, and a place people could cultivate the "wide angle" view.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2018, 18:15:17 »
We are fortunate that, in general, Canada does not experience the degree of polarization that the US does.  A guess: it's because we have a parliament and use FPTP to decide elections.  A faction that can command roughly 40% of the popular vote can win a majority and execute its will without the gridlock of the US system (unity between the legislative branch and the executive branch, irrespective of the quirk of who is head of state).  Because most people can experience "their team" running things for a few years, every few years, with anything egregious done by one parliament easily overturned (unless it clearly has broad public support) by a succeeding parliament, electoral defeats and intervals out of power are not perceived as the end of the world.
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

"It is a damned heavy blow; but whining don't help."

Despair is a sin.

Offline Remius

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2018, 19:07:27 »
If anybody wants another guide.


https://mediabiasfactcheck.com
Optio

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2018, 21:20:31 »
Not that one.   It turns out to be just some guy's private project.
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

"It is a damned heavy blow; but whining don't help."

Despair is a sin.

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2018, 06:12:04 »
Not that one.   It turns out to be just some guy's private project.

All those tools are "just some guy's [or gal's] private project" ... but so, in almost every case, are almost all the media outlets of all types, even the BBC and CBC, including the venerable Spectator (established in 1711) and Fox News and iPolitics, also just "some guy's private projects" ~ the CBC was, largely, the creation "private project" of Graham Spry and The Times was the "private project" of John Walter back in 1785.

The whole thing is just a series of "private projects," some taken public, in the sense of being funded by government, most taken public in the sense of being (or belonging to) publicly traded corporations and a few remaining in private hands.

Sorry ... bit of a rant, but I think we give the media both too much and to little credit (and blame) for what it does and for what it fails to do, too.
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Offline Journeyman

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2018, 08:47:39 »
I get a feeling that the behaviour of the news media, and their targeted audiences, is illustrated well in this thread. 

We got almost a whole page of rational discussion -- with no one 'side' being overbearing -- before it devolved (inevitably?) into " 'Network A sucks.'  'Oh ya? Network B sucks')."

Again, merely a hunch, but I feel that those who were actually contributing to the debate would tend to be drawn more to the chart's upper-rated sources,* whereas those whose one-liners contribute very limited value feel quite at home with those sources that habitually draw name-calling from 'the other side.' 

Again,  :2c:


* Using: a)  the chart author's assessment, and b)  considering only the y-axis (overall quality) here;  x-axis (partisan bias) isn't a factor in this observation.

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2018, 12:53:13 »
The bottom line for me is a simple question: what sort of person would want to outsource his critical thinking to some person or organization with an unknown agenda?  It's not hard to distinguish fever swamps from reputable sources, or to detect bias, or to evaluate whether a journalist is knowledgeable about the subject or is one of Ben Rhodes's "average reporters"*.

The interesting thing about these metadata sources is that they essentially act like information gatekeepers. 

*"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old, and their only reporting experience consists of being around political campaigns. That’s a sea change. They literally know nothing."
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

"It is a damned heavy blow; but whining don't help."

Despair is a sin.

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2018, 14:16:05 »
>The whole thing is just a series of "private projects,"

What I mean is the difference between "some guy" operating out of his house with the occasional assistance of a handful of unpaid contributors, and a (hypothetical) organization with a few hundred employees devoted full-time to analyzing the (voluminous) content produced every day by 50 to 100 major media organizations.  The former isn't credible.
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

"It is a damned heavy blow; but whining don't help."

Despair is a sin.

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2018, 14:37:00 »
When it comes to news that is about "heated" topics I prefer to read a news source that has some distance from the topic. A perfect example for me is when I want news about America I'll go to the BBC, the BBC has less incentive to play to any particular market in America. When I want something even more distant I'll read the Straits Times, or Australian news.


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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2018, 15:03:48 »
We are fortunate that, in general, Canada does not experience the degree of polarization that the US does.  A guess: it's because we have a parliament and use FPTP to decide elections.  A faction that can command roughly 40% of the popular vote can win a majority and execute its will without the gridlock of the US system (unity between the legislative branch and the executive branch, irrespective of the quirk of who is head of state).  Because most people can experience "their team" running things for a few years, every few years, with anything egregious done by one parliament easily overturned (unless it clearly has broad public support) by a succeeding parliament, electoral defeats and intervals out of power are not perceived as the end of the world.
The US also uses FPTP to decide elections. I would argue that, contrary to your theory, it is an aggravating (if not driving) factor in polarization because to partisans (who see it as a competition between teams into which everyone can be neatly sorted) it is an all-in win or loose competition, and once your are down to just two or three "big tent parties" it becomes far easier for those parties to fight the divisive wedge issues than to attempt broad appeal to the population.

... but this is probably a discussion for a different thread.

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2018, 19:24:27 »
A former insider's view of Fox News

Quote
Former Fox analyst Ralph Peters: Fox viewers have 'utterly skewed view of reality'

CNN by Brian Stelter  @brianstelter  August 20, 2018: 2:57 PM ET

Many people believe, as Ralph Peters does, that President Trump was a "gift to Fox," and "Fox in turn is a gift to Trump."

The difference is that Peters worked at Fox News for years.

Peters, a retired US Army lieutenant colonel, was a Fox military analyst until March, when he resigned and burned the proverbial bridge. In a letter to his colleagues, he accused Fox of "assaulting our constitutional order and the rule of law."

Peters' statements shocked the TV news industry at the time.

On CNN's "Reliable Sources" on Sunday, he had more to say. "People that only listen to Fox have an utterly skewed view of reality," he said. He described the relationship between the president and his favored news network as a "closed loop," but that was hardly Peters' most strident critique of his former employer.

"Fox isn't immoral, it's amoral," he said. Later in the interview, when Reliable Sources aired clips that show Fox News hosts defending Trump's decision to strip former CIA director John Brennan's security clearance, Peters was asked if he thought his colleagues at Fox are "proud of their performance."

"The polite word is 'prostitutes,' so I'll just leave it at that," Peters fired back.

. . .

See rest of article here:

https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/20/media/ralph-peters-president-trump-fox-news/index.html

 [cheers]
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #45 on: August 20, 2018, 19:30:37 »
A former insider's view of Fox News

See rest of article here:

https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/20/media/ralph-peters-president-trump-fox-news/index.html

 [cheers]

You could probably say the same about the CBC, except it's bias is heavily skewed to the Left.... and it's fully funded by taxpayers.
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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #46 on: August 20, 2018, 19:51:42 »
If Fox is someone's only, or even primary, source of news, how can it not be dumbing?

Fox may be all some can afford.

I'm with Bell Fibe TV.

The "Starter" package has Fox.

But, if you want to upgrade to CBC News Network, CTV News Channel, BBC World News, BBC Canada or CNN, etc. you have to pay a premium.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 19:55:29 by mariomike »

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #47 on: August 20, 2018, 20:00:16 »
Fox may be all some can afford.

I'm with Bell Fibe TV.

The "Starter" package has Fox.

But, if you want to upgrade to CBC News Network, CTV News Channel, BBC World News, BBC Canada or CNN, etc. you have to pay a premium.

You get Fox because its the channel Fox, not Fox News. Fox News is a premium news service like the ones you listed. A better comparison is Fox is in the starter package along with CBC, Global, City, CTV, CBS, and NBC, all of whom have nightly and 6 PM news coverage to vary your prospectives.

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #48 on: August 20, 2018, 20:08:14 »
You could probably say the same about the CBC, except it's bias is heavily skewed to the Left.... and it's fully funded by taxpayers.

I could and I do.

My latest rant against the CBC is that while it shows The Great British Baking Show it cuts out the "Technical Challenge"--the middle of three challenges in each episode--to make room for all the bloody commercials. In the UK and on PBS it's a commercial free 1 hour show. Yet the tag line on the CBC website is "Bakers attempt three challenges ...".   :pullhair: I have to go to CBC's web site in order to watch the missing part.

Absolute sacrilege and rubbish. Someone should hang. I expect more for my precious tax dollars.

 :cheers:
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 20:19:08 by FJAG »
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Editorial Opinion
« Reply #49 on: August 20, 2018, 20:17:21 »
You get Fox because its the channel Fox, not Fox News. Fox News is a premium news service like the ones you listed. A better comparison is Fox is in the starter package along with CBC, Global, City, CTV, CBS, and NBC, all of whom have nightly and 6 PM news coverage to vary your prospectives.

My mistake. You are right.

Fox News Channel #507.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 08:48:25 by mariomike »