Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]

[dapaterson]

If you don't look like a NASCAR driver the communists win. That's basic military knowledge.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

If you don't look like a NASCAR driver the communists win. That's basic military knowledge.

Even the communists now look like NASCAR drivers.

Discuss.

 

[dimsum]

Yes, but so were the previous NCDs.

All the materials (except the velcro) are all aramid FR rated, so it's mostly just looking at where there are gaps (like along the collar and the sleeves for some people).

I think the big difference is they got rid of the jacket, which gave an entire extra layer, and the tighter fit gets rid of air gaps that gave protection.

What will probably be a bigger problem honestly is things like some of the underarmor type underwear, which shrink when they get hotter, and if folks use the DEU belt. We'll probably test some of the morale badges as well, and see what the difference is between the stitched ones vs some of those fancy printed rubberized plastic ones. No idea why you need to wear morale patches at sea anyway; they would get dirty pretty quick.

Another flight suit tangent - the 2-piece flight suit includes a belt. Most people get issued the standard nylon “cargo strap” belt For CADPAT. For a uniform that’s FR, I always thought that wearing a wide nylon belt was strange.

PVC patches on FR uniforms are also weird in terms of fire safety, but at least they don’t get dirty.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Yes, but so were the previous NCDs.

All the materials (except the velcro) are all aramid FR rated, so it's mostly just looking at where there are gaps (like along the collar and the sleeves for some people).

I think the big difference is they got rid of the jacket, which gave an entire extra layer, and the tighter fit gets rid of air gaps that gave protection.

What will probably be a bigger problem honestly is things like some of the underarmor type underwear, which shrink when they get hotter, and if folks use the DEU belt. We'll probably test some of the morale badges as well, and see what the difference is between the stitched ones vs some of those fancy printed rubberized plastic ones. No idea why you need to wear morale patches at sea anyway; they would get dirty pretty quick.

The rubberized plastic ones are supposed to be made of high temperature silicon, which should do better in fire than nylon, but we will see, I guess.

 

[dapaterson]

Even the communists now look like NASCAR drivers.

Discuss.

NWOs are communists?

 

[FSTO]

 

[Navy_Pete]

The rubberized plastic ones are supposed to be made of high temperature silicon, which should do better in fire than nylon, but we will see, I guess.

There isn't any particular standard called up for them formally, so it's hit and miss. If it's lowest compliant with no standard called up....

Personally think they generally look better, as some of the stitched patches are a bit of a blurry mess, so if there is an FR benefit that's a good reason to use those instead. Either way, hard to beat the training value of why you should wear the sleeves down when you see the test with a mannequin in the middle of 4 flamethrowers.

If anyone is curious to see the old NCD test videos btw it's on the DGMEPM sharepoint under the MSC 4 shared files, along with the actual burn breakdowns. The TLDR is the old NCDs with the jacket worked really well at the FR side of things. I'm sure the new ones will work well, but without a 2nd layer in the jacket won't do as well, but has been accepted as 'good enough' already.

Edit: Argh, now I fell down a rabbit hole looking at some of the PVC morale patches and may now have a burning dumpster fire and a few others on order.

 

[Furniture]

Brick Tamland and Michael Scott on the same page discussing NCDs. Now that’s just weird….

I had a chuckle at that when I realized what his avatar picture was as well.

No idea why you need to wear morale patches at sea anyway; they would get dirty pretty quick.

I think people like them at sea for the same reason they like them ashore... They look cool to a lot of people. It's the same reason people wear Ray-Bans at sea when Oakleys at half the cost would do the same thing.

 

[Underway]

I think people like them at sea for the same reason they like them ashore... They look cool to a lot of people. It's the same reason people wear Ray-Bans at sea when Oakleys at half the cost would do the same thing.

I think its a way to differentiate and personalize your uniform. And military folks have been doing that since time immemorial.

Second hand info:
The new uniforms are hot in the sun. However the T-shirt is the first layer, so you can ditch the outter layer and go in T shirts when appropriate. Still pretty hot even still. In the shoulder seasons though that is a great thing. Never get too chilly.

The new uniforms however are cold on the ship so I'm told. The extra jacket layer isn't available, particularly for the OP Room folks. This is where the new fleece comes in. Which of course is not considered an appropriate second layer for responding to an emergency but god damn its so comfy.

 

[JSoff]

The coasts are apparently all switched over, but some of us in the middle of the country are still wearing the older version. I expect there will be a mix of the two uniforms for a while yet. My understanding is that Ottawa units were going to start switching in Dec, but I have been out of town working so I'm not tracking anything.

It was supposed to be rolled out by rank, with Jr. Pers getting the new uniforms, and more senior people switching as it became more available. It may be the case that your new unit is in the middle of transitioning to the new uniforms.

Interesting, good to know! Well I had to relinquish my rank due to NavComm being weird with their Career progression, so back down to AB I mean S2, maybe I'll get the new uniform

 

[Stoker]

I think its a way to differentiate and personalize your uniform. And military folks have been doing that since time immemorial.

Second hand info:
The new uniforms are hot in the sun. However the T-shirt is the first layer, so you can ditch the outter layer and go in T shirts when appropriate. Still pretty hot even still. In the shoulder seasons though that is a great thing. Never get too chilly.

The new uniforms however are cold on the ship so I'm told. The extra jacket layer isn't available, particularly for the OP Room folks. This is where the new fleece comes in. Which of course is not considered an appropriate second layer for responding to an emergency but god damn its so comfy.

I found that the issue t shirts are crap, I just use some non issue ones that are way more comfortable. I also find that the issue nylon belt doesn't fit well with the large loops set up for a wider belt. The new fleece is also not the best and seems to change color after its washed a few times. In Halifax a few of the ships wear aftermarket fleece that are way better.

 

[dimsum]

I think its a way to differentiate and personalize your uniform. And military folks have been doing that since time immemorial.

Also, it’s a way to show pride (or at least association) with your unit/sub-unit/section, etc.

Aircrew have Crew patches within the squadron, and the Maritime Helicopter crews have patches for each ship they deploy with. NORAD folks, most of whom aren’t aircrew, also have crew patches.

Then, there are the ”significant event” ones, like Stalker 22 or RCAF 100th Anniversary. And Exercise patches (RIMPAC), etc.

All that to say that “morale” patches (not counting the dumpster fire one, which I have to check out now) also serve to identify which unit or sub-unit that person is from, so they’re not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Underway]

I found that the issue t shirts are crap, I just use some non issue ones that are way more comfortable. I also find that the issue nylon belt doesn't fit well with the large loops set up for a wider belt. The new fleece is also not the best and seems to change color after its washed a few times. In Halifax a few of the ships wear aftermarket fleece that are way better.

I don't care about the colour. It's warm as hell and I love it! And it has thumb holes. So double thumbs up from me. I do like the aftermarket ship gear though. OTT has a real nice fleese with the Griffon on it that was shipwear only.

 

[Stoker]

I don't care about the colour. It's warm as hell and I love it! And it has thumb holes. So double thumbs up from me. I do like the aftermarket ship gear though. OTT has a real nice fleese with the Griffon on it that was shipwear only.

Its warm for sure, just looks weird when going to shore with it after its changed color. You'd think they would of went with a better design and manufacture.

 

[Furniture]

Its warm for sure, just looks weird when going to shore with it after its changed color. You'd think they would of went with a better design and manufacture.

Bring back the old NCD jackets, problem solved...

 

[dimsum]

Bring back the old NCD jackets, problem solved...

Except that those are only waist-length, and the new NCDs are longer. So obviously some Coxn will be bent out of shape seeing shirt-tails.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I think people like them at sea for the same reason they like them ashore... They look cool to a lot of people. It's the same reason people wear Ray-Bans at sea when Oakleys at half the cost would do the same thing.

I guess it might be a trade thing; I was always catching oil, rust and fuel remnants in the machinery spaces, so can't imagine a mostly white flag patch at the shoulder not getting wrecked or similar. Even on the old NCD jacket I took the morale patch off for the same reason and put it back on when we were alongside. I probably wouldn't be worried about it otherwise.

@dimsum they are only waist length on paper; mine was down well below that because I had to go up a few sizes so the arms were long enough. Meant I could smuggle a four pack in the inside pockets and no one could tell because it was so baggy.

Sure there are lots of other providers, but if are looking...
This is Fine Dumpster Fire Meme Funny PVC Morale Patch - Etsy Canada

 

[Furniture]

What is the actual deal with morale patches? Is this something people are just doing, or has it been approved?

I know the deal with mission patches, but this morale patch thing is an unknown to me.

 

[NavyHopeful]

There is a current unclas message out, from June this year, stating that:

"THE QUOTE LINER, JACKET, BUOYANCY AID UNQUOTE, NSN LISTED BELOW IN
PARA 5, COMMONLY REFERRED TO AS THE FLOATER JACKET FLEECE, HAS BEEN
TESTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH REF B, CERTIFICATE OF COMPLIANCE AT REF C.
LINER, JACKET, BUOYANCY AID
CAN BE CONSIDERED A SECOND LAYER FOR THE PURPOSES OF ACTION DRESS AS
IDENTIFIED AT REF D SECTION
8.7.12 - DRESS REQUIREMENTS PARA 3"

It says later in the message that they are updating the dress regs to reflect it, and then the standard "this message will self-destruct in ...."

The link is here, but only works on the DWAN: http://msg-server.halifax.mil.ca/messages/all/2023/jun/2023163000228.html

 

[OldSolduer]

I banned the wearing of dry weave tshirts for that very reason - they are like shrink wrap, apparently there are materials that wick sweat away but aren’t prone to shrinking when subjected to intense heat.