Tactical Armoured Patrol Vehicle - RG-31, LAV Coyote, and (partial) G-Wagon Replacement

[McG]

Yeah surprisingly ply wood "sustainables" are poor targets on bombing ranges and Range Control / Base aren't amenable to constantly refreshing single use targets, especially since the air craft have hard times picking them up. Especially when there is a target, however nominal, out there.

There are steel target options.

 

[Underway]

Makes target detection drills a little tough eh?

Only if you use the sonar, no radar, in fog, at night, with no lights. Lol

More for weapons drills and to "excite" the weapons teams. Really boring just shooting wavetops. The ones we prefer to shoot at are the Hammerhead drones which as you may guess are fast, dodgy and much harder to see!

 

[Halifax Tar]

Only cost the shipping - which for the CA without both a large Airlift fleet, and a maritime shipping ability, probably would not have been easy.

Logistics.

 

[Underway]

From Noah on True North Strategic

The TAPV LCAV is real! Recently, a new concept for the TAPV has been floating around that notably features a new 30mm main gun, ATGM capability, and a new sensor package. We can confirm this is both real and a serious proposal being considered. Integrated UAS and a new Add-On Armour package are also being discussed. We reported a while ago that various UAS proposals for TAPV were being discussed. The plan, for now, is for up to 300 to be converted to this new standard.

Ok integrated UAS could be an interesting thing here... but the first half (30mm and such) what the actual $#*%?

Need more information but I have no idea what you would do with one of those (perhaps the 30mm is for shooting down drones??)

 

[PrairieFella]

From Noah on True North Strategic


Ok integrated UAS could be an interesting thing here... but the first half (30mm and such) what the actual $#*%?

Need more information but I have no idea what you would do with one of those (perhaps the 30mm is for shooting down drones??)

The working idea as far as I understand is that they want a workable light AFV for both dom and exp deployments for the CARBs and we're stuck with the TAPVs until at least the 2040s anyways. Domestically they are by far the most mobile vehicle in the ARes fleet for HADR and its sight systems could be used for SAR. For expeditionaries the 30mm and atgm would align with with the doctrinal requirements for light cav regiments and allow CARBs to act as armoured recce how we used to train it on the Coyotes. Screens, flank security, RAPZ, convoy escorts, etc. If its done right the TAPV might actually be kinda useful but I fully expect half measures and the project to be significantly underresourced so units might get one or two instead of a squadron (-) as is proposed. Wouldnt be until 2031 at earliest anyways.

 

[Underway]

The working idea as far as I understand is that they want a workable light AFV for both dom and exp deployments for the CARBs and we're stuck with the TAPVs until at least the 2040s anyways. Domestically they are by far the most mobile vehicle in the ARes fleet for HADR and its sight systems could be used for SAR. For expeditionaries the 30mm and atgm would align with with the doctrinal requirements for light cav regiments and allow CARBs to act as armoured recce how we used to train it on the Coyotes. Screens, flank security, RAPZ, convoy escorts, etc. If its done right the TAPV might actually be kinda useful but I fully expect half measures and the project to be significantly underresourced so units might get one or two instead of a squadron (-) as is proposed. Wouldnt be until 2031 at earliest anyways.

CARB? Cavalry Armoured Brigade???

 

[PrairieFella]

CARB? Cavalry Armoured Brigade???

Combined Arms Reserve Battalions - the high readiness, full time light infantry battlegroups being formed in the reserve world.

The LCav TAPV would be for the Defence of Canada Div only and would be the "tank" of the battlegroup in Canadian training and the filling a traditional armoured recce role for expeditionary ops.

 

[Furniture]

CARB? Cavalry Armoured Brigade???

I'm from PEI, so to me carbs are:

 

[McG]

CARB?

The full time component of the CA PRes … to get around TB established PY limits and create more full time battalions than can be done with authorized Reg F numbers.

 

[Kirkhill]

US restarts production of armored vehicle to send 65 to Ukraine

A factory in Louisiana is producing armored vehicles for Ukraine for the first time, as Textron Systems announced that full vehicle builds of the Mobile Strike Force Vehicle have begun at its Slidell manufacturing facility. The $163.4 million contract is

defence-blog.com

The original "TAPV" is now back in production for Ukraine.

....

The one thing where I think the TAPV, and the Patria CAV, has an advantage over the LAV II is the position of the driver and VC. The LAV II positioning, reminiscent of a tank, or other fighting vehile, may be more tactically sound but it is not ideal for long road moves in extreme weather. The conventional truck arrangement of the TAPV and the CAVS is more compatible with the role of a logistics protected mobilty vehicle. They deliver the crew and passengers in comfort and safety (assuming they are not canadianized) over long distances in all weathers and in the face of enemy harassment. And the transition from driving a logistics vehicle, or even a civilian vehicle, can be easier (again assuming the absence of canadianization).

And all three, the MSFV 4x4, the CAVS 6x6 and the LAV II 8x8 APC, are all transportable over long distances using the commonly available C130 airlifter.

 

[PrairieFella]

The commander being in front of the weapons system is not a benefit. Especially with no peri/independent viewer for the CC.

 

[McG]

The original "TAPV" is now back in production for Ukraine.

MSFV was the M1117 variant that the US had built for the ANA and delivered in quantities to allow a few "mechanized" MSF battalions in each ANA Corps. While MSFV and TAPV have common lineage, the MSFV is not TAPV.

 

[Kirkhill]

MSFV was the M1117 variant that the US had built for the ANA and delivered in quantities to allow a few "mechanized" MSF battalions in each ANA Corps. While MSFV and TAPV have common lineage, the MSFV is not TAPV.

Understood.

Did we improve the MSFV when we specced the TAPV?

 

[Kirkhill]

The commander being in front of the weapons system is not a benefit. Especially with no peri/independent viewer for the CC.

That applies to both the LAV II APC (Bison) and the CAVS.

The Bison VC was the gunner. He was behind the driver and the MG pintle.
The LAV 25 / Coyoter VC was in the turret, as is appropriate for an AFV.

The CAVS are not AFVs. They are PMVs/APCs for transporting troops. Just like the Roshel Senator where the VC sits in the cab beside the driver.

On the other hand the VC in the CAVS and Senators, and for that matter the TAPVs and Bisons, are virtually behind the weapons system and have independent viewers.

 

[KevinB]

Did we improve the MSFV when we specced the TAPV?

Loaded question.

Pros: Higher ground clearance for obstacle crossing and stand off from mines and IED.

Cons: Much higher CoG which has made it a lot less stable.
Bizzare interior layout

 

[Kirkhill]

Loaded question.

Pros: Higher ground clearance for obstacle crossing and stand off from mines and IED.

Cons: Much higher CoG which has made it a lot less stable.
Bizzare interior layout

Everything is a compromise.

I suspicion that the majority opinion is that the compromise got it wrong.

 

[KevinB]

Everything is a compromise.

I suspicion that the majority opinion is that the compromise got it wrong.

Had the Afghanistan mission lasted longer that opinion may have been reversed.

But yeah I don’t think it was a worthwhile change overall.

 

[Kirkhill]

Had the Afghanistan mission lasted longer that opinion may have been reversed.

But yeah I don’t think it was a worthwhile change overall.

Had the Afghan mission continued and a TAPV been fielded I suspect that the same people who were welding boiler plate to HUMVEEs would have promptly field modified the vehicle to something that actually worked for them.