Author Topic: The US Presidency 2019  (Read 134963 times)

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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2019, 16:49:14 »
There is also the fact that the "precariat" aren't focused on the economic questions right now - hot economy or not, they probably grinding out some lower-level job with no benefits anyways.  Immigration and migration, social policy, and race relations seem to be issues that are prevalent in the news cycles and that the Trump administration is using buttress "The Base" against "The Elites" in the swamp.  I suspect the "precariat" sees these as bigger threats to America.  Here is an interesting take on things.


Thanks for that link. It's well worth a read. The key take-away is Professor Stanley's contention that fascists (and, almost certainly Trump supporters, too) think that the corruption that matters is that of "purity" and of "the traditional order." The precariat, which some observers think may account for up to 40% of the non-professional labour force, of the 'working class' and 'lower middle class,' in other words, and the traditional order both got swept aside in the 1990s and 2000s by the latest wave of globalization.

President Trump heard and understood their angst and promised to do something about it; that's why he's POTUS and Hillary Clinton is a historical footnote.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2019, 17:18:16 »
The key take-away is Professor Stanley's contention that fascists (and, almost certainly Trump supporters, too) think that the corruption that matters is that of "purity" and of "the traditional order." The precariat, which some observers think may account for up to 40% of the non-professional labour force, of the 'working class' and 'lower middle class,' in other words, and the traditional order both got swept aside in the 1990s and 2000s by the latest wave of globalization.

In spite of the fact the Republicans have lost the popular vote in every presidential election, except one, since the 1980's, it seems quite possible they will get back in,

QUOTE

A bipartisan report indicates that changes in voter demographics since the 2016 election could impact the results of the 2020 election. African Americans, Hispanics, Asians/others, and "whites with a college degree" are expected to all increase their percentage of national eligible voters by 2020, while "whites without a college degree" will decrease. This shift is potentially an advantage for the Democratic nominee, however due to geographical differences, this could still lead to President Trump (or a different Republican nominee) winning the Electoral College while still losing the popular vote, possibly by an even larger margin than in 2016.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/demographic-shifts-show-2020-presidential-race-could-be-close-n868146

END QUOTE

Offline FJAG

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2019, 17:31:53 »

Thanks for that link. It's well worth a read. The key take-away is Professor Stanley's contention that fascists (and, almost certainly Trump supporters, too) think that the corruption that matters is that of "purity" and of "the traditional order." The precariat, which some observers think may account for up to 40% of the non-professional labour force, of the 'working class' and 'lower middle class,' in other words, and the traditional order both got swept aside in the 1990s and 2000s by the latest wave of globalization.

President Trump heard and understood their angst and promised to do something about it; that's why he's POTUS and Hillary Clinton is a historical footnote.

But doesn't that fly in the face of Dr Standing's definition of the precariat as set out in his article https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-commentary/a-new-class-canada-neglects-the-precariat-at-its-peril/article24944758/ where he defines it to be a new class of:

Quote
the growing mass of Canadians who are in precarious work, precarious housing and hold precarious citizenship: the perpetual part-timers, the minimum-wagers, the temporary foreign workers, the grey-market domestics paid in cash, the young Canadians who will never have secure employment, the techno-impoverished whose piecemeal work has no office and no end, the seniors who struggle with dwindling benefits, the indigenous people who are kept outside, the single mothers without support, the cash labourers who have no savings, the generation for whom a pension and a retirement is neither available nor desired.

By my reckoning (and the reading of a few Dickensian novels) this underclass is not new but has been a with us for centuries if not time immemorial.

I take it from the Beinart article that Infanteer cites that the foundation of Trump support comes from are those who are angered by the "corruption in the sense of the usurpation of the traditional order." which in effect is one of a social order based on gender and tradition (i.e. religious) and racial class lines. While there is undoubtedly a partial overlap of the precariat and the Beinart groups, I think it is the Beinart group that fuels the core of Trump's support. The precariat itself strikes me much more as a group that ought to gravitate to socialism.

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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2019, 18:19:58 »
FJAG: I think you're right about the precariat having been with us almost forever, but I recommend Stephen Harper's new book, 'Right Here, Right Now,' in which he posits that this, recent, eruption of precariat outrage is the result of them being able to identify a source of their problems ... now I think they have acquired the wrong target, but it doesn't matter what I think (or what Stephen Harper thinks, either), they have decided that the liberal world order that has been around for 75ish years is to blame and they have the bit between their teeth.

(Parenthetically, see also Niall Ferguson's thesis that the early 21st century is not like the 1930s or any other modern age ... rather it is like the early Reformation era when the printing press was new; the spread and flow of 'information' is unprecedented; that's why the precariat can identify their villain.)

I also think this generation of the precariat is larger, and, especially, proportionately larger here in North America and in Western Europe, than in the past and that makes a huge difference ... please imagine President Trump saying huge ... yuge or something.
 
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as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2019, 18:39:39 »
...
I take it from the Beinart article that Infanteer cites that the foundation of Trump support comes from are those who are angered by the "corruption in the sense of the usurpation of the traditional order." which in effect is one of a social order based on gender and tradition (i.e. religious) and racial class lines. While there is undoubtedly a partial overlap of the precariat and the Beinart groups, I think it is the Beinart group that fuels the core of Trump's support. The precariat itself strikes me much more as a group that ought to gravitate to socialism.

 :subbies:


That's why I recommend the Stephen Harper book: he thinks there is a huge overlap, if they are not one in the same. His prescription is that a principled (classical liberal) conservative party must reach out to the precariat (he doesn't use that term) with new programmes, policies and promises ~ he thinks that the problem is much bigger than just jobs ... it goes to that dignity deficit thing which is about social structures, law and order and jobs. He wants to keep globalization and free trade and so on but he says that we need to fix the precariat concurrently with repairing the damage the Trump Party is doing to the world order.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2019, 21:00:27 »
I find it kind of hilarious how people believe the multi millions of people who voted for Trump are all a bunch of red neck neanderthals. We sit across our border looking down our nose at the POTUS that won, as fair and square as possible.

So much smarter aren't we Canadians. Countless hours spent cursing his very existence, all his failed policies, his tweets his spelling mistakes, his grammar, his actions and mannerisms. So much smarter than the millions of people that voted for him. Nobody says anything about being one of the only Presidents to be keeping all of his election promises.

So smart, as a matter of fact, that it's all about Trump.

Where is all the research and angst for our own situation. Our PM is turning our country inside out, people on the verge of poverty, others already destitute. Jobs disappearing, stagnant economy, trade agreements in shambles. We are in a total chaos as trudeau gives our country away. Where are all those, smarter than any American, Canadians? Lots of time to slam a foreign power and head of state, but none to talk about the ruination of their own country. Perhaps it's that loyalty to trudeau that allows them to throw rocks over the fence with an air of hypocracy that can only be smelled by those not enthralled with him.

Yep, a real smart bunch.

Perhaps they feel if they make Trump the devil incarnate, it'll make trudeau somewhat palatable while their heads are in the sand. Canadians that talk down to Americans are not as smart as they think they are. I'm sure there are plenty amongst those millions of Americans, that are professionals in their fields, that could shred every amateur opinion on this thread.


Trump 2020.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2019, 22:30:48 by Fishbone Jones »
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline FJAG

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2019, 21:51:36 »
Okay. Hands up everybody who didn't see this coming.

Quote
Trump attacks McChrystal after retired general called Trump immoral
By Caroline Kelly

In one of his first tweets of the new year, President Donald Trump attacked retired four-star Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal after he criticized the President on Sunday.

"'General' McChrystal got fired like a dog by Obama," Trump tweeted Tuesday morning. "Last assignment a total bust. Known for big, dumb mouth. Hillary lover!"

Trump was retweeting a post from Fox News' Laura Ingraham sharing a story headlined "Media Didn't Like McChrystal Until He Started Bashing Trump."

The commander in chief's name-calling comes after McChrystal said during an interview Sunday that Trump was dishonest and immoral.

"I don't think he tells the truth," McChrystal told ABC's Martha Raddatz on "This Week." When asked if he thought Trump was immoral, McChrystal responded, "I think he is."

. . .

See rest of article here: https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/01/politics/trump-tweet-mcchrystal/index.html

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2019, 08:15:44 »
Optio

Offline Rifleman62

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2019, 08:55:32 »
An earlier post stated the $0.73 Cdn dollar. That's not how currency exchange works.

Right now the Cdn dollar is $0.73256. To purchase one USD is $1.36527. Currency exchange through the TD Bank is $1.4005 (which charges a commission to do the exchange). If you or a business are exchange large amounts the commission rate goes down.

The point is it is costing at least $0.37 Cdn extra to buy one USD, not the $0.27 it appears to be.
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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2019, 13:38:00 »
I find it kind of hilarious how people believe the multi millions of people who voted for Trump are all a bunch of red neck neanderthals.

There were five posts by Edward Campbell, four by myself, and one by FJAG.  Nowhere did anyone say "red neck neanderthals," or insinuate the same, so I'm not sure why you are bringing this up.  Rather, the discussion was on the value perception of voters supporting leaders with platforms like the current President.

Quote
Where is all the research and angst for our own situation.

Why don't you start a thread about the Liberal Party of Canada and its base in the politics thread then?  I'm sure you'll get some informed responses to satiate your curiosity.
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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2019, 18:37:15 »
At last, some in-depth geo-political analysis, rooted in a deep understanding of history:

Quote
Trump’s bizarre history lesson on the Soviet Union, Russia and Afghanistan

By Aaron Blake
January 2 at 5:08 PM

President Trump said a lot of strange, untrue things after Wednesday’s Cabinet meeting. But the most bizarre snippet might have been his “history” lesson on the Soviet Union.

Trump, who has assured us he is the foremost expert on many topics for which he has no formal education or training, gave his own version of why the USSR collapsed. And to be clear, it is his own version.

Here’s what he said:

“Russia used to be the Soviet Union. Afghanistan made it Russia, because they went bankrupt fighting in Afghanistan. Russia. … The reason Russia was in Afghanistan was because terrorists were going into Russia. They were right to be there. The problem is, it was a tough fight. And literally they went bankrupt; they went into being called Russia again, as opposed to the Soviet Union. You know, a lot of these places you’re reading about now are no longer part of Russia, because of Afghanistan.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/02/trumps-bizarre-history-lesson-soviet-union-russia-afghanistan/?utm_term=.e22b734fa5a4
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2019, 19:11:34 »
There were five posts by Edward Campbell, four by myself, and one by FJAG.  Nowhere did anyone say "red neck neanderthals," or insinuate the same, so I'm not sure why you are bringing this up.  Rather, the discussion was on the value perception of voters supporting leaders with platforms like the current President.

Why don't you start a thread about the Liberal Party of Canada and its base in the politics thread then?  I'm sure you'll get some informed responses to satiate your curiosity.

You don't get to rewrite your binned post to me, to remove your contravention of the rules, and expect an answer. That a bit over the top, even for you. As I stated in my earlier response to you.There was no mention made of members, threads or forums. It was a general statement of some Canadians attitudes.

As far as who is discussing what, no rule says we have to maintain a continuity of flow about an element of discussion. Tangents, opinions on other subjects can be started at any time. As are many of the one liners that have a tendency to appear from individuals.

I'm way ahead of you on a separate thread. Just tring to decide how I want to describe our PM and his trusty bunch of supporters.
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline BeyondTheNow

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2019, 19:54:42 »
I'm way ahead of you on a separate thread. Just tring to decide how I want to describe our PM and his trusty bunch of supporters.

I’m trusting all is solved then.

Everyone carry on with discussion without the needless bickering and accusation-throwing, or leave the discussion. It’s that simple.

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #38 on: January 02, 2019, 21:28:28 »
Regardless of anyone’s political leanings, The POTUS is about to have a rougher ride starting tomorrow.
Optio

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2019, 22:48:08 »
Regardless of anyone’s political leanings, The POTUS is about to have a rougher ride starting tomorrow.

He sure is. Are we taking bets on whether he can get legislation passed to implement the USMCA trade deal?
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Offline Journeyman

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2019, 09:24:01 »
WARNING:  I'm about to say something positive about Trump. :o  (It's a stretch, but it's the best I can do)

Are we taking bets....
The only gambling I'm concerned about with the US Presidency is the hand-wringing (either gleefully or dismayed) surrounding the growing theme of "inevitable" impeachment. 

Personally, I see Pence's Presidency as a horrific COA -- the erratic worldview we already see coming from the White House would have a newfound underpinning of competence.  Unfortunately for Americans, the focus would shift from destabilizing the international system to a more domestic agenda, with his extremist evangelical beliefs openly targeting religious and sexual freedoms.  If in doubt, look at his writings during his time hosting talk shows, or his legislation (often overturned as unconstitutional) as Indiana governor.  A Pence Presidency could not help but widen the chasm in an increasingly fractured, dysfunctional America.

So while there is varying degrees of evidence that Trump is: misogynistic; racist; sociopathic; likely illiterate; emotionally insecure; and frankly, not the brightest crayon in the box..... he's not the worst option.



Correction.... because I do dumb things on occasion.  ;)
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 09:46:06 by Journeyman »

Offline mariomike

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2019, 09:28:18 »
Sorry for the nitpick, Journeyman,

I believe Mike Pence was governor of a neighbouring state: Indiana.

If in doubt, look at his writings during his time hosting talk shows, or his legislation (often overturned as unconstitutional) as Illinois governor. 

So while there is varying degrees of evidence that Trump is: misogynistic; racist; sociopathic; likely illiterate; emotionally insecure; and frankly, not the brightest crayon in the box..... he's not the worst option.

I can't see Pence able to get the base riled up at MAGA rallies the way Trump does.

« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 09:40:39 by mariomike »

Offline Journeyman

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2019, 09:44:05 »
Sorry for the nitpick, Journeyman,

I believe Mike Pence was governor of a neighbouring state: Indiana.

 :bowdown:    The nitpick is completely justified! 


I was thinking of his abysmal response to the 2009 East  Chicago toxic lead/arsenic contamination disaster...conflating 'Chicago' and "Illinois.'  ~d'oh~ :facepalm: 

Offline kkwd

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2019, 11:42:41 »
Regardless of anyone’s political leanings, The POTUS is about to have a rougher ride starting tomorrow.

Of course. Soon after the swearing in and control of committees is complete the process of obtaining Trump's tax returns will begin. When they get them expect them to be dumped on the desk of the Washington Post soon after. But getting the tax returns could be a good thing, everybody knows you put all your illegal activities on schedule "666".
I don't subscribe to forced acceptance. I'll make up my own mind. Diversity of thought and opinion is essential.

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I don't subscribe to forced acceptance. I'll make up my own mind. Diversity of thought and opinion is essential.

Offline mariomike

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2019, 12:44:43 »
Do you have direct knowledge that the audit is complete?

I just know what I read in the papers,

QUOTE

There is no law that stops a person from releasing tax returns while under audit.
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1421/release-his-tax-returns-after-audit-completed/

END QUOTE

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2019, 13:05:50 »
Of course. Soon after the swearing in and control of committees is complete the process of obtaining Trump's tax returns will begin. When they get them expect them to be dumped on the desk of the Washington Post soon after. But getting the tax returns could be a good thing, everybody knows you put all your illegal activities on schedule "666".

My guess and it is only that, is that he has not paid a dime in income tax.  But it will all be legal.  It may also reveal a lot of offshore holdings.
Optio

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2019, 19:51:25 »
My guess and it is only that, is that he has not paid a dime in income tax.  But it will all be legal.  It may also reveal a lot of offshore holdings.

Considering what the a New York Times investigation found that is not a stretch:

Trump Engaged in Suspect Tax Schemes as He Reaped Riches From His Father
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2019, 20:54:38 »
I just know what I read in the papers,

QUOTE

There is no law that stops a person from releasing tax returns while under audit.
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1421/release-his-tax-returns-after-audit-completed/

END QUOTE

There is federal law saying he 'shall' turn them over if they ask. He can refuse, go to court and if he loses, a small group of scrutineers will then get to look at them. A small group. If he just turns them over, the democrats will have them broadcast around the world in minutes. Even if the court decides in the dems favour, the IRS is under no obligation to drop everything and do a search and deliver. Heck, there might even be an election before they get around to it.

They say they are looking for conflicts of interest, although they have failed to state exactly what they are looking for. I'm guessing it's just a nosey fishing expedition and it tweaks Trump's nose.

Trump never said the audit prevented him from turning them over, but he did say his lawyers recommended not doing it during an audit. That makes perfect sense to me. If trained, professional IRS auditors, possibly have trouble navigating it, or need clarification on something. imagine if a bunch of bumbling, no nothing politicians get there hands on it. Better to have the professionals finish the job and remove all the false flags the dems are going to try read into it.

I see they also want to audit the Trump Foundation. I'd say sure, why not? Right after they are done investigating the Clinton and Obama Foundatioms.


Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.