Author Topic: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes  (Read 12248 times)

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Offline Monsoon

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #75 on: April 23, 2019, 12:57:12 »
Right, so what I'm reading here is a misunderstanding of how "policy debate" differs from "party policy". The fact that someone got the minimal number of signatures needed to introduce (say) abortion rights as a topic for debate at a policy convention in 2017 isn't what matters. What matters is that the party voted to maintain a policy of support for access to abortion in Canada.

Functional democracy means tolerating the fact that there are people out there whose opinions differ from your own; policy conventions are the literal embodiment of that principle. The Conservatives and NDP could make people happy by adopting the Liberal practice of having all policy motions vetted by an insider committee before being introduced for debate at a convention, but I give them credit for preferring to maintain a semblance of democratic process and trust that their membership will get the vote right.

Online Halifax Tar

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #76 on: April 23, 2019, 13:03:46 »
Right, so what I'm reading here is a misunderstanding of how "policy debate" differs from "party policy". The fact that someone got the minimal number of signatures needed to introduce (say) abortion rights as a topic for debate at a policy convention in 2017 isn't what matters. What matters is that the party voted to maintain a policy of support for access to abortion in Canada.

Functional democracy means tolerating the fact that there are people out there whose opinions differ from your own; policy conventions are the literal embodiment of that principle. The Conservatives and NDP could make people happy by adopting the Liberal practice of having all policy motions vetted by an insider committee before being introduced for debate at a convention, but I give them credit for preferring to maintain a semblance of democratic process and trust that their membership will get the vote right.

The fact anything of that nature was even debated in 2017 is troublesome, and only further supports my position.  And it will continue to dog us; and be fodder for our opposition, until we stop bringing it up.

Our memberships needs to come to grips with the fact that gay rights an abortion are decided in Canada.  And any leader with so much as the stench of changing that around them is going be almost unelectable for the greater part of this country. 
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 16:22:23 by Halifax Tar »
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Offline FJAG

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #77 on: April 23, 2019, 13:47:12 »
The fact anything of that nature was even debated in 2017 is troublesome, and only further supports my position.  And it will continue to dog us; and be fodder for our opposition, until we stop bringing it up.

Our memberships needs to come to grips with the fact that gay rights an abortion are decided in Canada.  And any leader with so much as the stench of changing that around them is going be almost undetectable (unelectable?) for the greater part of this country.

I agree with you but I also thought that two decades ago the abortion issue was settled in the US and that Gay rights were moving forward there at an acceptable rate. Boy was I wrong! I think that the social conservatives in the CPC are gaining confidence and strength from what is going on in the South and will continue to push and advocate to undermine what both you and I thought was a "settled issue" here. I think those of us who are more socially liberal within the CPC need to take a strong stand and be heard regularly. Mind you that might just result in the formation of another Reform or Wildrose Party and split the vote again.  :facepalm:

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Offline Colin P

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #78 on: April 23, 2019, 14:19:48 »
Well we could take the "science based approach" the left loves to go on about and apply them to the issue of the beginning of life. Now that would be interesting. As I said before, our current definition is "Legally neat" but not based on any science. Real science may prove the gay issue, but would slaughter the whole gender garbage except in the tiny, tiny fraction of people born with two sets of genitals.

Can you blame the right with dealing with the issues when they have had "Planned Parenthood" and 72 genders rammed down their throats for at least a decade? 

Offline CloudCover

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #79 on: April 23, 2019, 15:03:52 »
Thats interesting, because in the world of human taxonomy and science, there is no sub category of gender.
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Online Halifax Tar

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #80 on: April 23, 2019, 16:22:56 »
lol Thanks for the correction FJAG.  Whoops!

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Offline CloudCover

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #81 on: April 23, 2019, 22:38:34 »
Is it possible for Scheer to step down from leadership“ for health reasons” and somebody more palatable take the reins. Caroline Mulroney?
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Online Remius

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #82 on: April 24, 2019, 07:23:02 »
Is it possible for Scheer to step down from leadership“ for health reasons” and somebody more palatable take the reins. Caroline Mulroney?

To be honest I think she shot herself in the foot with Doug Ford's dealings with the Franco Ontarian issue.  She'll never be able to get votes in Quebec after that.  A good chunk of NB and parts of Ontario would snub her as well.  And her father did her no favours when he appeared on Tout le monde en parle.  She's damaged goods. 

My take is that if he wins, then he should stay obviously.  If he only manages to force a Liberal minority given the current climate, I'm not so sure.  He should be given a chance but I suspect that there will be internal pressures for him to move out of the way.  A Liberal minority would get maybe 2 years in before another election and the last thing they would want is another 4 years of Trudeau after that.   
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Online Halifax Tar

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #83 on: April 24, 2019, 08:31:01 »
To be honest I think she shot herself in the foot with Doug Ford's dealings with the Franco Ontarian issue.  She'll never be able to get votes in Quebec after that.  A good chunk of NB and parts of Ontario would snub her as well.  And her father did her no favours when he appeared on Tout le monde en parle.  She's damaged goods. 

My take is that if he wins, then he should stay obviously.  If he only manages to force a Liberal minority given the current climate, I'm not so sure.  He should be given a chance but I suspect that there will be internal pressures for him to move out of the way.  A Liberal minority would get maybe 2 years in before another election and the last thing they would want is another 4 years of Trudeau after that.

I think the likes of MacKay and Rona Ambrose are kicking themselves right now.  Both of these folks would have been excellent alternatives to JT and his team. 

Having said that, a Liberal minority is a conservative victory, especially with all the provinces being moved to Conservative governments.  I predict Scheer stays on in this case. But failing to win an elections after the collapse of a Liberal minority I suspect Scheer is ousted and MacKay or Ambrose take the reigns.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #84 on: April 24, 2019, 08:55:21 »
From the Toronto Star.

This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

Online Good2Golf

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #85 on: April 24, 2019, 09:35:47 »
I think the likes of MacKay and Rona Ambrose are kicking themselves right now.  Both of these folks would have been excellent alternatives to JT and his team. 

Not sure about that. Ambrose couldn’t run as the interim leader, I believe, and MacKay was still focusing on his family.  That said, I could see either pre- or post-election changes given certain conditions that could develop in the coming months.

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #86 on: April 24, 2019, 11:45:25 »
Not sure about that. Ambrose couldn’t run as the interim leader, I believe, and MacKay was still focusing on his family.  That said, I could see either pre- or post-election changes given certain conditions that could develop in the coming months.

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I am of the camp that believes they chose their paths at that time expecting a very strongly supported Liberal party for 2 election cycles with little chance of victory until a third election. 
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Online Remius

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #87 on: April 24, 2019, 12:06:17 »
I am of the camp that believes they chose their paths at that time expecting a very strongly supported Liberal party for 2 election cycles with little chance of victory until a third election.

I'm of the same belief.  They are or were planning a return shortly after a 2nd Trudeau win.  Those plans might be in question now for some.
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Offline Loachman

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #88 on: April 25, 2019, 18:44:04 »
Our memberships needs to come to grips with the fact that gay rights an abortion are decided in Canada.

A good number of other matters "are decided in Canada" as well.

As we don't need to revisit any of them either, barring anything completely new, why bother with Parliament at all?

Many people have very different viewpoints on many subjects. Should they also "come to grips" with a/the standardized/officially-mandated viewpoint?

I don't know that too many people are hung up on "gay rights" (really nothing more than ensuring that all people are treated fairly and equally), but there are a lot of people who understand that abortion involves killing an unborn human being and are very, very unlikely to be convinced otherwise.

Neither abortion nor the conflict surrounding it are ever likely to go away. Recognizing the political impracticality/impossibility regarding banning it outright, I'd rather at least see a legislated end to late-term abortions, especially partial-birth abortions, and more support, including adoption services, offered to potential mothers in order to truly give them a "choice".

The only two women that I've ever known who were open about having had abortions harboured deep regrets and remorse many years later, and wished that they'd made a different decision.