Author Topic: Naval Mess Dress  (Read 40490 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MissHardie

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 40
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 51
Naval Mess Dress
« on: October 22, 2004, 21:18:14 »
I discovered Wednesday night that I need to acquire some sort of neck accoutrement for the Mess Dinner (this) Saturday night and that no, this won't be issued to me - my question is, what is this female bow tie they speak of? And where might I find one? Formal wear stores? Can I get away with a real bow tie, or will that mean I'm crossdressing? (ha! Just the impression I want to make, especially in front of the Admiral). The one store that was recommended to me (Classy's) has closed down so now I'm a little bit panicky over the thought of being fined a drink for everyone present...

I've been to a Mess Dinner before, but before I was issued proper kit and all the females wore evening gowns.

Offline Inch

  • Signal Charlie Goodtimes
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • -395
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,231
  • CH124 Driver
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2004, 21:56:45 »
Proper mess kit is bought, not issued. If you're wearing CF DEUs as a mess kit, the general practice for men is to wear DEUs with a white tuxedo shirt with a black bow tie. As for women, I'm not too sure but I'd suggest you try Canex, they usually have all the accoutrements for mess kit. I noticed from your profile that you're in Calgary and I don't think there's a Canex there anymore so that might not help you much.

I know it's not much info, but maybe one of the ladies of the forum can give you a little more help.

Cheers
You sir are a moron!
A Mormon? But I'm from Earth.

Offline Michael O'Leary

  • The moral high ground cannot be dominated by fire alone, it must be occupied to be claimed as held.
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 339,075
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,682
    • The Regimental Rogue
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2004, 21:59:44 »
From the Dress Regulations (A-AD-265-000/AG-001 2001-06-15):

Chapter 6 Orders of Dress

Annex E Authorized Additional Items

17. Tie, crossed tabs (F) -

a. Black crossed tabs tie.

Occasions worn.
(1) Navy: shall be worn with all mess dress except No. 2C mess shipboard.

http://regimentalrogue.com/sharefiles//navy_female__mess_dress.jpg


If you can't find one, I'd say wear a man's bowtie and only buy a drink for any male officer who can tell you who in town sells the proper crossed tab tie (or even knows what it's properly called, if you're feeling generous).
« Last Edit: October 22, 2004, 22:05:48 by Michael OLeary »

Offline Fishbone Jones

    MSC -6495.

  • "Some people will only like you if you fit inside their box. Don't be afraid to shove that box up their ass."
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 280,307
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 18,646
    • Army.ca
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2004, 22:16:55 »
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline MissHardie

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 40
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 51
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2004, 22:20:17 »
Inch, Mr. OLeary, recceguy,

Thanks for the info! No, there's no Canex here, so I'm SOL with that idea, but knowing what this neck-thingie is called sure helps! I'm sure I can now find something suitable... or get away with a criss-cross tie that the western stores sell here, which I found yesterday but was unsure of whether it satisfies dress regs. Speaking of which, is there any way to access those off the intra-net?  Though finding a bowtie, methinks, will be much easier than scouting the city for that - what is it? - crossed tab tie. Hopefully that's navy tradition as well as army. :)

Thanks again!

Offline Michael O'Leary

  • The moral high ground cannot be dominated by fire alone, it must be occupied to be claimed as held.
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 339,075
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,682
    • The Regimental Rogue
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2004, 23:27:43 »
The Dress regs comprise a 17 Mb file, your best bet is to download it at work and write it to a CD for your home PC as a reference.

Sorry, but I can't remember exactly where I found it on the DWAN.


Offline Sailing Instructor

  • Member
  • ****
  • 90
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 153
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2004, 01:00:29 »
Does anyone think that the female mess dress looks a bit...outdated?  Personally I think the guy who designs uniforms didn't put too much thought into making an aesthetically-pleasing mess dress for females.  Just 'switch those trousers for a skirt.'

Mind you, that mentality produced an aesthetically-pleasing female service dress uniform.


NavyGrunt

  • Guest
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2004, 01:15:53 »
Your right lets just throw away another naval tradition because it looks "outdated".   ::)

We should all wear hypercolor t-shirts and hammer pants because its more "modern". I dont know what they teach you as an o-cadet but Naval tradition is very important,we've already changed the uniforms too much as far as Im concerned. The technology can change but the uniforms and traditions should not.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2004, 03:07:45 by Aaron White »

Offline MissHardie

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 40
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 51
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2004, 01:36:06 »
Personally, I'd like to wear a uniform like that the WRENs wore - not that it's changed much over the intervening years, but there are subtle differences that make it more aesthetically pleasing.  I saw one in the naval museum and just fell in love with it.  But then I like old things.

NavyGrunt

  • Guest
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2004, 03:09:24 »
Personally, I'd like to wear a uniform like that the WRENs wore - not that it's changed much over the intervening years, but there are subtle differences that make it more aesthetically pleasing.   I saw one in the naval museum and just fell in love with it.   But then I like old things.

That would be excellent. I as well like the older styled uniforms and trades badges.....ALOT. Its a shame how they get swept aside....

Offline Sailing Instructor

  • Member
  • ****
  • 90
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 153
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2004, 23:47:33 »
Strangely enough, though I find the current female naval mess dress 'outdated,' I do like the WREN mess dress.

I can't say I liked giving the junior ratings no separate mess dress, though.  But that square rig sure did look sharp.

Offline tree hugger

  • Hug a Betula allegeniensis.
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 6,135
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 452
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2004, 07:18:09 »
Wear a bow tie - you can can one from any mens suit store - just make sure it's not a "clip-on"! Next tiem you hit a CANEX look look for a white shirt that has gold buttons on it and kind of looks like a turtle neck. It's ugly but a the cool women are wearing it!
Always behave like a duck.   Remain cool and unruffled on the surface but paddle like the dickens underneath.

Offline Bograt

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 1,060
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 601
  • Dream Big, Work Harder
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2004, 07:41:09 »
I think the more important question is "What is the Navy doing in Calgary?" Perhaps they are working with Department of Fisheries and managing the Saskatchewan seal herd.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2004, 06:54:17 by Bograt »
Hannah and Robbie's Dad

Offline MissHardie

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 40
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 51
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2004, 13:44:30 »
Bograt,

I admit I am curious as to what seals hear in Saskatchewan - perhaps the Great Plains Walrus we Navy-folk keep tame, to prevent the ravaging of farmland? They do have this awful habit of bellowing at the top of their lungs when we tazer them too often from the prow of our great grass hover-ships. That is, incidentally, the real reason why all us inland naval reservists each need a pair of ear defenders.

sarcasm gets me into way too much trouble as a JOUT...
« Last Edit: November 01, 2004, 14:00:33 by MissHardie »

Offline Sailing Instructor

  • Member
  • ****
  • 90
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 153
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2004, 16:54:01 »
I think I'm doing a pretty good job of controlling the Winnipeg seal/walrus herd.  I haven't seen a single one around....
Dress Instructions can be found at http://142.59.159.170/pams/cf_dress_manual.pdf

Can anybody tell me why we (in the navy) can wear wellington boots in the mess, yet not on parade?  Damn contemporary uniform: I prefer 'frockers & cockers' over naval combat rig anyday.

Offline Sailing Instructor

  • Member
  • ****
  • 90
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 153
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2004, 09:14:31 »
I've finally started to get my mess rig made. So I went to the base tailor today and found that CFSS doesn't sell material for mess rig anymore.  No problem as the stuff they want is pretty damn heavyweight & apparently I just have to get material that's similar, which got me wondering how much latitude they allow in naval mess dress.

I've heard some people on this forum say that some regiments (Patricia's I think) rather expect individuality but I don't want to get reamed out by some captain because I'm not the same as everyone.  Though I assume that no one really checks at mess dinners.

Perhaps someone can shed some light on this subject.  Specifically, I want pleats in my trousers, but the patterns show flat-front trousers.  Will anyone notice and/or care?

Offline Inch

  • Signal Charlie Goodtimes
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • -395
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,231
  • CH124 Driver
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2004, 09:26:08 »
I'd say you're definitely going to notice pleats, the pants are meant to be properly tailored.  When you get measured by the tailor, he'll ask you which way you dress and he isn't talking about whether you put your socks on first. They leave a little extra material for the goods if you know what I mean.

Where are you? If you're in Vic or Halifax, just ask around, I know there's a tailor in Halifax that does naval mess kits and I'd assume there was one in Vic as well. If you're in Winnipeg, try Ralph's. Not sure where exactly it is but I know it's south of Portage Ave. I got my Air Force mess kit done in Kingston at Andrei's, he also does naval and army mess kits. There's tons of guys around that make them, I have no doubt that there's one in a city near you.

Cheers
You sir are a moron!
A Mormon? But I'm from Earth.

Offline Sailing Instructor

  • Member
  • ****
  • 90
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 153
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2004, 15:52:32 »
I somewhat concur.  My tailor (Giovanni, in Winnipeg) and I figured pleats would be noticed.  But they are so much more confortable than flat-front trousers. Of course if the flat-fronts are cut loosely it doesn't matter, but then I might as well travel back in time and become a Seaman and wear bell-bottomed trousers.  Actually, come to think of it, those bell-bottoms are tight in the thighs anyway.

I guess I just haven't any experience with properly tailored flat-front trousers because the worst offenders in tightness (my service dress trousers) really don't seem to take into account that the wearer dresses either way.  Ironically, I've noticed the ladies' service dress trousers have pleats.  And of course the navy does realise that pleats are more confortable because they put them on the combat trousers.

Okay, so pleats will be noticed but the important question is: will anyone care (besides the bureaucrats who come up with the dress specifications)?

Offline Inch

  • Signal Charlie Goodtimes
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • -395
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,231
  • CH124 Driver
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2004, 16:02:23 »
Personally I think pleats would look dumb with a waist coat, they're supposed to be sleek looking, not like you're ready to head out for a round of golf. You also don't wear a belt with mess kit, I believe you're supposed to wear suspenders so that helps a little with the comfort.  The reason women's service dress has pleats is obviously because they're anatomically different than men, I can't say for their mess kit, most women that I've seen in mess kit tend to wear the skirt. I don't mind how my mess kit fits at all, besides, 99% of the times that you wear it you'll be drunk!

Cheers
You sir are a moron!
A Mormon? But I'm from Earth.

Offline Sailing Instructor

  • Member
  • ****
  • 90
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 153
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2004, 16:33:27 »
I guess I'm just stuck in a 1930s ideal of men's fashion where high English-back trousers with braces automatically require a deep forward pleat!  ;D And because of that I don't think that trousers need to be pencil-thin to be sleek; rather, the slight baginess is stylish--I've seen many evening suits with pleated trousers & they make me want wish white tie was coming back. 

But don't worry, I haven't lost all faith in the flat-front trousers, and if I do I'll just have to join a highland regiment and enjoy the freedom of a kilt!

Dreadnought

  • Guest
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2004, 16:38:08 »
Hey Sailing is your unit H.M.C.S Chippawa in Winnipeg and if it is then what is your rank?  Just curious because I was interested in joining.

Staud

  • Guest
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2004, 20:04:14 »
Mess dress- If you have a good tailor then a lot of these questions shouldn't need to be askeded. Call different tailors and ask them questions, they have made many and between a bunch of them you should be able to get most of your answers. Just get doeskin, not that cheap barethea (sp?) it may be heavier and more expensive at some tailors (but not all) but well worth it.

There is a goood tailor in Edmonton that the CFB Edmonton supply can give you the number for.. if in the area.

my 2 cents.. Naval female mess dress with the skirt (which is proper) is very good, good meaning sexxy, in a proffessional way.

Fair winds... MissHartie say hi to TEC from Staud for me.  Cheers   

Offline MissHardie

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 40
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 51
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2004, 20:41:07 »
Staud,

MissHartie say hi to TEC from Staud for me. Cheers

Will do.  Anyone in particular?

Staud

  • Guest
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2004, 12:44:08 »
Will do.  Anyone in particular?

- N'importe qui   ...XO mabey, cheers, Staud

Offline SeaRoom

  • Guest
  • *
  • 10
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 22
Re: Naval Mess Dress
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2005, 14:05:04 »
Does anyone know the name of the company that supplies the gold trouser and cuff braid, and the gold "Canada" pathches; or a tailor that would be willing to sell them to me? The closer to Toronto the better. Thanks.

BQ