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Tactical Armoured Patrol Vehicle - RG-31, LAV Coyote, and (partial) G-Wagon Replacement

Just curious - weren't there some legal issues in Afghanistan over the manner in which detainees were detained, secured and transferred?

And here I am hearing tales of ancient Romans conducting tribunals to manage prisoners.....

No connection? :unsure:
 
If what I recall from the ill fated Royal Commission on the Somali affair. Any problems with Prisoners might have been solved by a properly trained and led MP Det.
The Government felt that it was an expensive luxury they could afford to do without.
That and apparently and a field kitchen...
Mustn't go over budget must we ?
 
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Just curious - weren't there some legal issues in Afghanistan over the manner in which detainees were detained, secured and transferred?
Yes there were and if IIRC it was JTF 2 handing insurgents over to the Americans.

If what I recall from the I'll fated Royal Commission on the Somali affair. Any problems with Prisoners might have been solved by a properly trained and led MP Det.
The Government felt that it was an expensive luxury they could afford to do without.
That and apparently and a field kitchen...
Mustn't go over budget must we ?
How true. Let's not forget that mefloquine poisoning is STILL being looked at. AND the only one held to account (jail time) was a soldier who should probably never have been there to start with. Never mind the MCpl.....who did not have a good rep either.
 
Yes there were and if IIRC it was JTF 2 handing insurgents over to the Americans.


How true. Let's not forget that mefloquine poisoning is STILL being looked at. AND the only one held to account (jail time) was a soldier who should probably never have been there to start with. Never mind the MCpl.....who did not have a good rep either.
Probably explains why it took so long for our current Government to pull the trigger on the Mali operation.
 
A little thread necromancy but wanted to put this here both because its funny but also - at what point do we we cut our losses with these tippy, broken lemons, give what runs to the Ukrainians or Haiti or whatever and start from scratch?

Stuff tips.

AVGPs rolled;

LAVs and Strykers roll;

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M113s roll;

armee.jpg.webp


Even tanks roll;

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Sometimes vehicle characteristics play a part but once those characteristics become known, in non combat related situations, the cause usually turns mostly to human factors.


It's long past time blaming the vehicle.

$0.02

:unsure:
 
In my opinion the Senator will do about 80-90% of what a TAPV can do, but do that part better, cheaper and we can have more of them. Plus we are spending dollars in Canada. TAPV is our Ajax.
 
Tapv is top heavy and easy to roll with an inexperienced driver
100%. It rolls for experienced drivers too. The sway in a crosswind is noticeable and scary af lol.
In my opinion the Senator will do about 80-90% of what a TAPV can do, but do that part better, cheaper and we can have more of them. Plus we are spending dollars in Canada. TAPV is our Ajax.
Youre probably not wrong. I wonder if they intend to install RWS on some of the Senators when they inevitably win? A single mount with a 50 would be nice.
 
100%. It rolls for experienced drivers too. The sway in a crosswind is noticeable and scary af lol.
There's also the fact the brakes and steering are on the same hydraulic reservoir. Which doesn't seem to have enough pressure to run them both at the same time. So if you do find yourself in a turn going to fast there's no slowing down till it's too late.
 
There's also the fact the brakes and steering are on the same hydraulic reservoir. Which doesn't seem to have enough pressure to run them both at the same time. So if you do find yourself in a turn going to fast there's no slowing down till it's too late.
I thought that had been resolved. Combine that with zero ABS and winter driving was whiteknuckle as fuck when I drove one.
 
Stuff tips.


Sometimes vehicle characteristics play a part but once those characteristics become known, in non combat related situations, the cause usually turns mostly to human factors.

It's long past time blaming the vehicle.

$0.02

:unsure:

The issue I have with the TAPV design is that was raised for the CAF version from the original design -- and then a lot more weight was added at the top of the hull raising the CoG beyond a safe limit.

Sure you can tip anything - but having seen them sway down the highway near my parents cottage, it isn't a well design vehicle - and both some stuff needs to go from the top -- as well as some ballast added to the bottom of the hull to drop the CoG.
 
The issue I have with the TAPV design is that was raised for the CAF version from the original design -- and then a lot more weight was added at the top of the hull raising the CoG beyond a safe limit.

Sure you can tip anything - but having seen them sway down the highway near my parents cottage, it isn't a well design vehicle - and both some stuff needs to go from the top -- as well as some ballast added to the bottom of the hull to drop the CoG.
I really dont know if the upgrade juice is worth the squeeze. Id rather see these turned over to Global Affairs to donate as they see to build diplomatic clout than to spend more money polishing a turd. Lets identify the capability (light cav, RAS, convoy duties, whatever) and then tailor a vehicle for the capability.
 
The issue I have with the TAPV design is that was raised for the CAF version from the original design -- and then a lot more weight was added at the top of the hull raising the CoG beyond a safe limit.

Sure you can tip anything - but having seen them sway down the highway near my parents cottage, it isn't a well design vehicle - and both some stuff needs to go from the top -- as well as some ballast added to the bottom of the hull to drop the CoG.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending the TAPV as a cavalry vehicle or minimizing its problems.

My point was that the TAPV has for a long time been a known quantity. The army knows what it can and can't do. There should be adequate safeguards and training in place to minimize the problems with its characteristics. It strikes me that the army continues to misuse it because it has to use it for the purpose for which it was originally built. We continue to have issues because the training and supervision of the drivers is weak.

It's long past time to hand them over to purposes that do not need aggressive driving on difficult terrain. (I'm a fan of using what you have because anything is better than nothing at all - give them to an MP battalion or theatre level rear area security battalion for rear area patrols for example) That means, however, there needs to be a clear plan and strategy for what is needed by the "armoured cavalry" (I still divide them into distinct "tank" and "cavalry" components - the former organized and equipped for the close fight and the latter primarily for the divisional deep fight). The surveillance LAV, is one item but I see the need for smaller, lower, lighter, but heavily armed and networked vehicles as the core of the latter augmented by a variety of SEV "enablers." - I don't see a TAPV anywhere on the front lines.

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I thought that had been resolved. Combine that with zero ABS and winter driving was whiteknuckle as fuck when I drove one.
Maybe it's an upgrade on roll out and hasn't got it to us yet. A decision like that shouldn't have made it past prototype and definitely shouldn't be an issue still on vehicles almost a decade old now though.
 
Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending the TAPV as a cavalry vehicle or minimizing its problems.

My point was that the TAPV has for a long time been a known quantity. The army knows what it can and can't do. There should be adequate safeguards and training in place to minimize the problems with its characteristics. It strikes me that the army continues to misuse it because it has to use it for the purpose for which it was originally built. We continue to have issues because the training and supervision of the drivers is weak.

It's long past time to hand them over to purposes that do not need aggressive driving on difficult terrain. (I'm a fan of using what you have because anything is better than nothing at all - give them to an MP battalion or theatre level rear area security battalion for rear area patrols for example) That means, however, there needs to be a clear plan and strategy for what is needed by the "armoured cavalry" (I still divide them into distinct "tank" and "cavalry" components - the former organized and equipped for the close fight and the latter primarily for the divisional deep fight). The surveillance LAV, is one item but I see the need for smaller, lower, lighter, but heavily armed and networked vehicles as the core of the latter augmented by a variety of SEV "enablers." - I don't see a TAPV anywhere on the front lines.

🍻
The talk around town is that a sizable minority of them will be redistributed to ARes Armoured units as is - what a terrible idea. We already dont have the infrastructure or support for 4-6 TAPVs, I dont know how we're supposed to properly store and maintain them when units have 10-15 TAPVs. Storing them outside breaks them long term and we're losing thr Reg maintainers to a separate division...we're so fucked lmao.
 
The talk around town is that a sizable minority of them will be redistributed to ARes Armoured units as is - what a terrible idea. We already dont have the infrastructure or support for 4-6 TAPVs, I dont know how we're supposed to properly store and maintain them when units have 10-15 TAPVs. Storing them outside breaks them long term and we're losing thr Reg maintainers to a separate division...we're so fucked lmao.
One can only hope that with the 1 and 2 Div restructure, an adequate amount of full-time personnel will be directed into 2 Div. If not then all my thoughts about the lack of vision of army planners will be borne out.

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