Author Topic: Desert Boots  (Read 164051 times)

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Offline MCG

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #175 on: December 28, 2008, 11:54:57 »
BulletMagnet,
You will find that that provision has been removed from the manual:
It appears the "Buy your own boots if you don't like the issued ones.", exemption is no longer available.  I just looked at the Supply Manual (http://dgmssc.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dmpp_apps/SupplyManual/WebHelp/index.htm) today and the para relating to that is gone:

Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #176 on: December 28, 2008, 12:06:16 »
That's how I take this sort of thing.

Regulations and policies exist to assist and guide the Commander in exercising his perogative and following his orders to accomplish the mission.

Too many people forget that - I remember previous excellent posts you made about the differences in 'staff-centric' vs 'command-centric' organizations.  While we claim to be "command-centric" I fear that in most cases, the CF is only paying lip service and whitewashing over a very strong bureaucratically-minded staff-focused system where "I can't do anything to help, it's the system" and "well, the CO can't authorize that, there's a policy right here..." etc etc.

Sometimes policies and regulations are wrong and hinder the Commander's efforts.

You just reminded me of a discussion No. 1 Son (my “dog in the fight”) and I had a while back. He was telling me that he adhered to an old, old (and good, in my opinion) rule: "Only I (the boss) can say 'No'."

As we were talking, he had just reminded his subordinated that they could agree to pretty much anything that was within their area of responsibility and capabilities. They could, indeed should always say 'Yes' if they could do the job. If the job was beyond their scope/capabilities or if they felt a need to say 'No' then they had to pass the request with their recommendation (with reasons) up the CoC until, eventually, it reached No. 1 Son's immaculate desk (from which, I imagine he removed his (steward polished) shiny shoes) whereupon he decides if a 'No' is really warranted or necessary.

I recall this lesson from 40+ years ago when I was temporarily appointed to be Assistant Adjutant (punishment, maybe?). My CO was a stickler for "Everyone can say 'Yes" but only I can say 'No'." It gave subordinate commanders (OCs) tremendous freedom. That particular CO was never unhappy to see an empty parade square and an empty MT compound - he was always happy to see soldiers out of garrison doing something and, hopefully, having fun in the process. (He was also convinced that having fun ≈ working very hard but that working hard for no good purpose ≠ fun.) As a good general rule the staff should not be allowed to say ‘No’ – that should be a command responsibility – a “wait out” (while I ask the boss) is acceptable provided it is followed, shortly by either a ‘Yes’ or the boss, himself (maybe herself nowadays),  saying ‘No.’

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Offline Loachman

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Re: Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #177 on: December 28, 2008, 12:12:24 »
everyone who signs on that dotted line, myself included, will follow them.

You presume too much.

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #178 on: December 28, 2008, 12:56:45 »
New desert boots are the only part of my kit that I will never part with due to a "no non-issue kit rule". I'd rather take the charge for NDA129 and Disobeying a Lawful command over destroying my feet and shins in boots that absolutely do not work for me. Its not a slight at the Supply system, or the very capable techs that work long hours to make sure we all have the basic compliment of equipment to do our job. Whoever does the procurement for the boots is horribly failing the soldiers in the field. I personally can't imagine walking around in the Altama boots (I'm can't get a chit so I can't try the Boulet boots) for an entire 6 month tour.

Offline reveng

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #179 on: December 28, 2008, 13:21:11 »
I'd rather take the charge for NDA129 and Disobeying a Lawful command over destroying my feet and shins in boots that absolutely do not work for me.

I hear ya. I had no problem getting a chit for boots, and still can't get what the big deal is. From what I've seen, real NCO's/staff don't even care on courses these days, as long as it's black!

Offline Infanteer

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Re: Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #180 on: December 28, 2008, 13:24:11 »
Lol - and what part would that be?

The part of the Army where proper footwear can mean the difference between becoming a casualty (or at least ineffective) and winning the battle.  I'm not going to rehash the argument on feet and boots, as it's been done to death, but each foot has its own requirements.

It's also the part of the Army where the senior officers wear effective footwear and allow their soldiers to do the same.

So don't worry about us...we're doing just fine.
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline Simian Turner

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #181 on: December 28, 2008, 20:11:27 »
When a Cdn Comd RC(S) and his personal Cdn staff are wearing the Dutch desert boots, I say let's get comfortable.  Been there - done that.
The grand essentials of happiness: something to do, something to love, something to hope for.  Allan K. Chalmers

Offline KevinB

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #182 on: December 28, 2008, 23:05:50 »
Those Meindl Desert Fox boots are very very nice.
Kevin S. Boland
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Offline MikeH

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #183 on: December 28, 2008, 23:27:41 »
Quote
I hear ya. I had no problem getting a chit for boots, and still can't get what the big deal is. From what I've seen, real NCO's/staff don't even care on courses these days, as long as it's black!
When I was with 1PPCLI for TF108 the CO told us that he didn't care what we ***** on our feet as long as they were black.I used SWAT's liked them a lot, for the price they are decent.
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Offline zipperhead_cop

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #184 on: December 29, 2008, 09:04:01 »
When I was with 1PPCLI for TF108 the CO told us that he didn't care what we ***** on our feet as long as they were black.I used SWAT's liked them a lot, for the price they are decent.

A most excellent misspelling  :D
I have two pairs of 511's that the Queen bought for me when I made the proper snivelling sounds.  However, I was really snivelling after I had to break them in and pretty much destroyed my heels three times.  As well  after two months they were already starting to fall apart.  Ripped lining, penetrated toe caps, breaking laces. 
I also have a pair of Danner TFX's that I will probably have a hard time not wearing around the house when I get back. 
If it is tan, and it is boot-ish, it appears to be okay.  And I agree that when the CoC wears all issued kit then maybe there might be some pressure to conform inside the wire.
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Offline aquasaurus

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #185 on: June 01, 2009, 14:37:39 »
Although I actually don't mind the new Boulet desert boots (I think they are a big improvement on their predecessors), I still wanted something a little lighter and more comfortable as an alternative while I am over there. I recently picked up a set of Rocky S2V 101's, which I am really happy with. They seem to be built a lot nicer than the SWAT's or the Oakleys (neither of which was I very impressed with - the Oakleys were comfy, but felt like basketball shoes).  They have a nice speedlacing system, and the newer, wrap-around Vibram sole. I think these ran a shade over $200 Cdn.



I also still have my British desert boots from when I was on exchange and took a British dive team to the Gulf, and they are fairly light and comfortable, so I will probably bring them as an alternative as well.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 14:44:00 by aquasaurus »

Offline 40below

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #186 on: June 01, 2009, 15:24:59 »
I'll put in a plug for Wellcos. I was given a pair before I went to Afgh by someone who bought a pair prior to his roto and left them here because he didn't like the way they fit. I figured I'd wear them and send them to Goodwill when I got back but they turned out to be one of the most comfortable boots I've ever worn, and I still wear them a few times a week - they go fine with khakis and have a low profile that doesn't look like an army boot (my work doesn't require me to blouse my trousers  ;D) Very comfortable, and they wear like iron.

Offline Soldier1stTradesman2nd

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #187 on: June 01, 2009, 18:50:41 »
Although I actually don't mind the new Boulet desert boots (I think they are a big improvement on their predecessors), I still wanted something a little lighter and more comfortable as an alternative while I am over there. I recently picked up a set of Rocky S2V 101's, which I am really happy with. They seem to be built a lot nicer than the SWAT's or the Oakleys (neither of which was I very impressed with - the Oakleys were comfy, but felt like basketball shoes).  They have a nice speedlacing system, and the newer, wrap-around Vibram sole. I think these ran a shade over $200 Cdn.



I also still have my British desert boots from when I was on exchange and took a British dive team to the Gulf, and they are fairly light and comfortable, so I will probably bring them as an alternative as well.

Rockys - source?
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Offline MCG

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #188 on: June 02, 2009, 12:50:36 »
... I actually don't mind the new Boulet desert boots (I think they are a big improvement on their predecessors) ...
Are you refering to the new brown ones?

Offline aquasaurus

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #189 on: June 02, 2009, 14:08:21 »
Rockys - source?

I got them locally at a military / surplus / hiking store here in Kinsgton, but your best bet would be checking with the company and seeing if their website lists dealers in your area.

Offline aquasaurus

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #190 on: June 02, 2009, 14:11:38 »
Are you refering to the new brown ones?

Yes, the new arid ones - I had a set of the previous ones, and it was like the insole was made of cardboard or something. It got all warped and out of shape the first time they got wet. The new ones do seem heavy though, and I haven't worn them in any really hot weather yet (I will be breaking them in over the summer in Victoria, but it doesn't get all that hot. My British ones (which are a similar style to the older Cdn arid boots) are nicer. When I was in Germany on course recently a lot of the European guys had the Meindl boots, which also seemed really good.

Offline Towards_the_gap

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Re: Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #191 on: June 02, 2009, 14:42:09 »
::)

You obviously haven't been to my part of the Army....

Or mine...... non-issue boots are nowadays, in the field army, a non-issue. I RARELY see issue boots these days, everyone buys lowas, 5.11's, SWATs or Magnums, and nothing is said. If there is anyone who seriously takes offence at this, I say, please, get a life. There are more important things to worry about. Should I ever fail to do my job because my feet are in tatters because of non-issue boots, well then charge me. But that will never happen, as like every other trained, experienced soldier, I know a good pair of boots when I wear them, and will not wear junk in the field. This is why we don't allow recruits to buy their own boots, they do not know what is good for them.

But back on topic, should any of you find yourselves in the UK on course or on holiday, I would recommend a trip to Richmond, N. Yorkshire (Northern England), makers of excellent boots in the same style as Meindl/Lowa, but considerably lighter and harderwearing, and with a number of varieties

http://www.altberg.co.uk/Web/military.jsp

Offline WB

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #192 on: June 02, 2009, 16:40:52 »
Quote
I recently picked up a set of Rocky S2V 101's, which I am really happy with. They seem to be built a lot nicer than the SWAT's or the Oakleys (neither of which was I very impressed with - the Oakleys were comfy, but felt like basketball shoes).  They have a nice speedlacing system, and the newer, wrap-around Vibram sole. I think these ran a shade over $200 Cdn.

I've been wearing Rocky S2Vs  since last fall. One word: fukinawsome.

Half the guys in my unit are wearing them, with excellent things to say both in Canada and overseas. The RSM was one of the first guys sporting a pair.


Offline Rider Pride

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #193 on: June 02, 2009, 22:12:10 »
I've been wearing Rocky S2Vs  since last fall. One word: fukinawsome.

Had mine for a yr.

I agree with your comment above and wish to add the adjective "freakingly" in front of it.

What I particularly like is the fact that a pair of Rocky SV2 weight less than 1 of the new issued boot.
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Offline NL_engineer

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #194 on: June 05, 2009, 11:47:59 »
Well one pair om my issued desert boots is in KAF locked away in a seacan somewhere, not to be seen till the end of tour (only brought, because I had to).  I think the other set is home in a box somewhere.

The new ones do seem heavy though...

They weigh almost as much as my laptop.


Or mine...... non-issue boots are nowadays, in the field army, a non-issue. I RARELY see issue boots these days, everyone buys lowas, 5.11's, SWATs or Magnums, and nothing is said. If there is anyone who seriously takes offence at this, I say, please, get a life. There are more important things to worry about....
http://www.altberg.co.uk/Web/military.jsp

They still exist, I ran into one in KAF, a few weeks ago when I was their.  I told him I forgot them in the FOB, so he would skip the how only issued kit should be used speech (good thing my chest rig was left in the vehicle).
Note to any Taliban and AQ personnel on the Form:  ALL SUICIDE VESTS AND EXPLOSIVE DEVICES MUST BE TESTED TO INSURE THEY WORK BEFORE GOING AFTER A TARGET.

This is a measure to save any embarrassment that may occur when your explosive device, does not function as it is intended to.

It has come to my attention that these measures are not being followed, so for all Taliban; please refer to the above.

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Offline Loachman

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #195 on: June 05, 2009, 12:34:13 »

They still exist, I ran into one in KAF, a few weeks ago when I was their.

Amazing. Did you hunt for this fellow for long? Most of my Flight wore non-issue boots, as did a sizeable portion of the KAF-bound CF population, and I never heard of anybody getting hassled for doing so.

Offline NL_engineer

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #196 on: June 05, 2009, 12:59:02 »
Amazing. Did you hunt for this fellow for long? Most of my Flight wore non-issue boots, as did a sizeable portion of the KAF-bound CF population, and I never heard of anybody getting hassled for doing so.

No, we ran into him wile in the line of an establishment that will remain unnamed.  Well when there are people in KAF that have nothing better to do it dosen't surprise me.  It was funny tho, he had buttons undone, and a gut that hung out from under his combats; and to make it better, he was using a NON-issued holster for his Hi-Power.


I should have asked you to tell the supply guys to send me your 9mm, I was told the one I was going to get went to someone in KAF that needs it more for his desk job.
Note to any Taliban and AQ personnel on the Form:  ALL SUICIDE VESTS AND EXPLOSIVE DEVICES MUST BE TESTED TO INSURE THEY WORK BEFORE GOING AFTER A TARGET.

This is a measure to save any embarrassment that may occur when your explosive device, does not function as it is intended to.

It has come to my attention that these measures are not being followed, so for all Taliban; please refer to the above.

Thank you for your cooperation

Offline Soldier1stTradesman2nd

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #197 on: June 05, 2009, 21:54:05 »
Makes a very good paperweight, especially with the breeze from all the air conditioners.
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Offline Rider Pride

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #198 on: June 06, 2009, 08:04:23 »
Yeah, they really need to start issuing Arid pattern fleece to fight the chill. It gets cold when you are working in front of an AC all day.
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Offline zipperhead_cop

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #199 on: June 16, 2009, 09:20:37 »
If people in KAF didn't wear pistols, then it might seem like it wasn't all that dangerous.  If it isn't all that dangerous, you don't get danger pay.  So you wear a gun in order to prove how dangerous it is.  See?  War is hell, even in the suburban shopping plaza that KAF has become. 
I bet these kit heros only pick on junior NCO's as well.  The only flack I ever took was overhearing two morons standing in that same line up mentioned who seemed incensed that my arid bush cap was dead flat in the rim, like a Smokey Bear hat (which was intentional). The one clown was snickering at how new my hat looked.  Yeah, Dink.  It is new.  I usually wear this thing called a "helmet".  Ever heard of it?   ::)
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